The dangerous liberal world of California

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Oct 17 8.45pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So you literally don't know the meaning of the word 'literally'. Literally now means "literally" and "not literally". You need to keep up. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Oct 17 8.45pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

So you literally don't know the meaning of the word 'literally'.

Literally now means "literally" and "not literally". You need to keep up.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 16 Oct 17 9.21pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Literally now means "literally" and "not literally". You need to keep up. So when you said: "The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war", you meant the flag is not a symbol of the civil war? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 16 Oct 17 9.21pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Literally now means "literally" and "not literally". You need to keep up.

So when you said: "The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war", you meant the flag is not a symbol of the civil war?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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.TUX. 16 Oct 17 9.37pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is. The Dukes of Hazard show wasn't making a political statement; Hollywood was using the flag - and the fact that the car itself was called the "General Lee" - as stereotypes of southerners. It's not like the show was trying to be subtle about lampooning southerners. It was nothing to do with slavery. It was purely financial ''oppression''. That's all it is. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

16 Oct 17 9.37pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war. The US had/has a flag, the south seceded and created a new flag - the confederate flag - to represent itself. It is a powerful symbol in the south because it represents that time when the south rose up against what they perceived as oppression from the north. But it was then and is now a symbol of the fight to maintain slavery over the rule of law that had abolished it. That's all it is.

The Dukes of Hazard show wasn't making a political statement; Hollywood was using the flag - and the fact that the car itself was called the "General Lee" - as stereotypes of southerners. It's not like the show was trying to be subtle about lampooning southerners.

It was nothing to do with slavery. It was purely financial ''oppression''.

That's all it is.

Buy Litecoin.

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Hrolf The Ganger 16 Oct 17 9.50pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well, I'd say working with black singers does say something actually. Also, recording 'if I can dream'. But I think I'd agreed that many people are complex and are not just some easy entity that people can pin descriptions on easily....then's there the time period and its cultural attitudes and so on.....But did Elvis do or say anything particularly bad? I think it's fair to say Gibson holds anti semitic attitudes. Though to be fair to him he's apologised a lot.....but I've heard Gibson on tape to a girlfriend and he's pretty fecked up. Amazing director....pretty fecked up....he said, 'I am a public figure, I should be an example and inspiration and I am an arsehole.' “I am 56. I should know better. So to them, my fans, I say I extend my apology and my love and best wishes to my fan base.' But yeah....that tape to that girlfriend.....that's some weird catholic 'angel or slut' violent attitudes on women. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Oct 2017 8.22pm) Any one who has been to Graceland knows that the only white people around there are tourists. Not somewhere you would move to if you didn't like Black people and had plenty of cash.
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Hrolf The Ganger

16 Oct 17 9.50pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, I'd say working with black singers does say something actually. Also, recording 'if I can dream'. But I think I'd agreed that many people are complex and are not just some easy entity that people can pin descriptions on easily....then's there the time period and its cultural attitudes and so on.....But did Elvis do or say anything particularly bad?

I think it's fair to say Gibson holds anti semitic attitudes. Though to be fair to him he's apologised a lot.....but I've heard Gibson on tape to a girlfriend and he's pretty fecked up.

Amazing director....pretty fecked up....he said, 'I am a public figure, I should be an example and inspiration and I am an arsehole.'

“I am 56. I should know better. So to them, my fans, I say I extend my apology and my love and best wishes to my fan base.'

But yeah....that tape to that girlfriend.....that's some weird catholic 'angel or slut' violent attitudes on women.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Oct 2017 8.22pm)

Any one who has been to Graceland knows that the only white people around there are tourists. Not somewhere you would move to if you didn't like Black people and had plenty of cash.

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Ray in Houston Houston 16 Oct 17 9.54pm
Originally posted by .TUX. It was nothing to do with slavery. It was purely financial ''oppression''. That's all it is. Nothing of the sort. The people involved - the ones who actually knew why they were doing what they were doing - wrote it down in formal Declarations of Seccession: [Link] Read the declarations - or at least the opening few sentences of each - and then try and persist with the whitewashing of the south's fight being about something other than maintaining their ability to own people. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 16 Oct 17 9.54pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

It was nothing to do with slavery. It was purely financial ''oppression''.

That's all it is.

Nothing of the sort. The people involved - the ones who actually knew why they were doing what they were doing - wrote it down in formal Declarations of Seccession: [Link]

Read the declarations - or at least the opening few sentences of each - and then try and persist with the whitewashing of the south's fight being about something other than maintaining their ability to own people.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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.TUX. 16 Oct 17 10.18pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Nothing of the sort. The people involved - the ones who actually knew why they were doing what they were doing - wrote it down in formal Declarations of Seccession: [Link] Read the declarations - or at least the opening few sentences of each - and then try and persist with the whitewashing of the south's fight being about something other than maintaining their ability to own people. Ok. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

16 Oct 17 10.18pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Nothing of the sort. The people involved - the ones who actually knew why they were doing what they were doing - wrote it down in formal Declarations of Seccession: [Link]

Ok.

Buy Litecoin.

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 17 Oct 17 11.08am
Typical US bashing from the left. They hate everything American. "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 17 Oct 17 11.08am

Typical US bashing from the left. They hate everything American.

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 17 Oct 17 11.20am
Originally posted by pefwin Typical US bashing from the left. They hate everything American. I never used to but then I discovered Neil Young is Canadian. That's a joke btw.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 17 Oct 17 11.20am

Originally posted by pefwin

Typical US bashing from the left. They hate everything American.

I never used to but then I discovered Neil Young is Canadian.

That's a joke btw.

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Stirlingsays 17 Oct 17 12.09pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Nothing of the sort. The people involved - the ones who actually knew why they were doing what they were doing - wrote it down in formal Declarations of Seccession: [Link] Read the declarations - or at least the opening few sentences of each - and then try and persist with the whitewashing of the south's fight being about something other than maintaining their ability to own people. Nope, it was over slavery....while there were genuine gripes between the north and south they were not the reason for secession. Once Lincoin was elected the die was cast. But of course he never believed in racial equality....I wonder how long it will be before his statutes are torn down. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

17 Oct 17 12.09pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Nothing of the sort. The people involved - the ones who actually knew why they were doing what they were doing - wrote it down in formal Declarations of Seccession: [Link]

Nope, it was over slavery....while there were genuine gripes between the north and south they were not the reason for secession.

Once Lincoin was elected the die was cast. But of course he never believed in racial equality....I wonder how long it will be before his statutes are torn down.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Oct 17 12.59pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If you only see the flag as a representation of the civil war sure. But this flag has been used by people in the south under different guises for decades. Are you saying the Dukes of Hazard was making a pro slavery point? Well, perhaps to you they were. If anyone is pro slavery they are idiots but symbols get appropriated because the aim is to maximise opposition to something.....it's unfortunate. No, but they were also outlaws and moonshiners and law breakers - It'd be really weird if they were also making a statement about their respect for authority... My issue here was more about people with a confederate flag claiming to be patriots and true Americans - not slavery (I get that not everything about the civil war and the confederacy was just about slavery and not everyone sporting one is pro-slavery). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 17 Oct 17 12.59pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If you only see the flag as a representation of the civil war sure. But this flag has been used by people in the south under different guises for decades. Are you saying the Dukes of Hazard was making a pro slavery point? Well, perhaps to you they were.

If anyone is pro slavery they are idiots but symbols get appropriated because the aim is to maximise opposition to something.....it's unfortunate.

No, but they were also outlaws and moonshiners and law breakers - It'd be really weird if they were also making a statement about their respect for authority...

My issue here was more about people with a confederate flag claiming to be patriots and true Americans - not slavery (I get that not everything about the civil war and the confederacy was just about slavery and not everyone sporting one is pro-slavery).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 17 Oct 17 1.09pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So when you said: "The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war", you meant the flag is not a symbol of the civil war? To me, it is a symbol of the Southern States, until after WW2 where the racists appropriated it a bit like the Cross of St George in the UK. "Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."
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pefwin

Where you have to have an English ... 17 Oct 17 1.09pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

So when you said: "The confederate flag is literally a symbol of the civil war", you meant the flag is not a symbol of the civil war?

To me, it is a symbol of the Southern States, until after WW2 where the racists appropriated it a bit like the Cross of St George in the UK.

"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 19 Oct 17 3.18pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Waddaloadabloodyrubbish. Speak of the devil here's one now "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 19 Oct 17 3.18pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Waddaloadabloodyrubbish.

Speak of the devil here's one now

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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