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Charlie Gard

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 13 Jul 17 1.14pm

Originally posted by dannyh

Turning off his life support even with a 0.01 % chance of a cure is tantamount to murder. quality of any future life shouldn't even be on the table for discussion. What should we have done with Stephen Hawking, when he became paraplegic? roll him off Beachy Head ? of course not.

There is zero chance for a cure. None of the treatments will be able to reverse the existing damage. I suspect any parent would be prepared to go to Hell and back for their child - But they're also giving this kid morphine because they believe he is in serious pain. The reality for this child, in the best case prognosis is severe brain damage, physical disability and a short life expectancy, that might be extended somewhat from infancy to childhood - likely full of pain and suffering. The likely outcome is that the treatment will have little to no effect other than to extend a life on tubes.

Its not a choice I'd want to make, and its not that often that you hear of paediatric doctors wanting to end the treatment of a child allowing them to die. These experimental treatments, one of them hasn't even started animal trials yet (so its a theoretical treatment).

Difference with Hawking is he is in a position to be able to decide for himself etc.

 


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Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 13 Jul 17 2.04pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

Turning off his life support even with a 0.01 % chance of a cure is tantamount to murder. quality of any future life shouldn't even be on the table for discussion. What should we have done with Stephen Hawking, when he became paraplegic? roll him off Beachy Head ? of course not.

While there is a chance, no matter how slim his parents have every right to fight for the childs right to live.

I almost hate myself for thinking this, but I bet my best boll0ck this wouldn't even be in the papers if the Gards were one of the vogue minority couples, gay, lesbian, etc etc.

It stinks.

There isn't a cure for irreversible brain damage . He can't see, hear, breathe for himself, cry or show any response to pain whatsoever. The size of him in recent weeks points towards possible organ failure on top of that.

We are talking about parents using a drug which hasn't even been tested on mice on him. If it can actually cross the blood barrier and get into the brain (50% chance it can even do that) it's got a hundredth of 1 per cent of a chance of stopping his symptoms progressing. So we are talking about a child being consigned to a life deaf in the dark with a machine breathing for him and if he's in pain (no one knows what this experimental drug could do to him side effect wise) he won't have any chance of communicating it to a soul.

The more I read about this and the more I think about it I think to do that to anyone animal or human is cruel in the extreme.

The reason it's in the papers to the level it is as the parents and aunt have had blogs, fundraising, pages all over social media etc etc with a massive publicity machine. Posed photographs of the child holding his passport saying he wants to go to America and all sorts. I get why they are doing it I really do but I seriously question their reasoning and thought process behind it. And having social media campaigns slagging off and running down the name of GOSH who cannot publicly respond to their comments is bloody scandalous.

 


When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 13 Jul 17 2.16pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by dannyh

Turning off his life support even with a 0.01 % chance of a cure is tantamount to murder. quality of any future life shouldn't even be on the table for discussion. What should we have done with Stephen Hawking, when he became paraplegic? roll him off Beachy Head ? of course not.

While there is a chance, no matter how slim his parents have every right to fight for the childs right to live.

I almost hate myself for thinking this, but I bet my best boll0ck this wouldn't even be in the papers if the Gards were one of the vogue minority couples, gay, lesbian, etc etc.

It stinks.


Unfortunately you're not comparing like for like there Danny so the point you make..although perfectly sound for Mr Hawking doesn't hold water with regards to the case in point.

 


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Goldfiinger Flag Just down the road 13 Jul 17 10.52pm Send a Private Message to Goldfiinger Add Goldfiinger as a friend

Originally posted by Mr Palaceman

The parents should be allowed to do everything they can for their child.

Ashya King would not be alive today if the doctors had had their way.

Yep I don't know the story but I'd have to agree with this.

Their the parents and they have to live with the aftermarth of the decisions. If they feel it's best for them then who are we to judge? Will the little lad be any worse off if it doesn't work?

But yeah I don't know the story so guess that's just my general view on situations like this.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 14 Jul 17 11.27am

Originally posted by Goldfiinger

Yep I don't know the story but I'd have to agree with this.

Their the parents and they have to live with the aftermarth of the decisions. If they feel it's best for them then who are we to judge? Will the little lad be any worse off if it doesn't work?

But yeah I don't know the story so guess that's just my general view on situations like this.

I think the problem is more that he won't be any better off if it does work.

I would say that in most cases, doctors and parents are in agreement, and they will do everything they can towards saving a patient (in fact doctors will act against parents wishes to force treatment, where parents might, say for religious reasons, not want vital treatment).

Cases like this are the abnormality, where in you're balancing hope vs expert opinion. Neither party is objective (its emotion vs rationality) and someone has to make an objective decision on the best interests of the child.

When no one can achieve that, we refer it to the court. Same with any other case where the best interest of the child cannot be assured to be with the parents, due to evidence from expert opinion.

 


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Michaelawt85 Flag Bexley 14 Jul 17 1.10pm Send a Private Message to Michaelawt85 Add Michaelawt85 as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think the problem is more that he won't be any better off if it does work.

I would say that in most cases, doctors and parents are in agreement, and they will do everything they can towards saving a patient (in fact doctors will act against parents wishes to force treatment, where parents might, say for religious reasons, not want vital treatment).

Cases like this are the abnormality, where in you're balancing hope vs expert opinion. Neither party is objective (its emotion vs rationality) and someone has to make an objective decision on the best interests of the child.

When no one can achieve that, we refer it to the court. Same with any other case where the best interest of the child cannot be assured to be with the parents, due to evidence from expert opinion.

It also raises the medical ethics question. This child cannot give any form of consent to an experimental unlicensed untested drug being used on him. That's where the parents usually come in and give the consent in their interests of their child . However the American doctor being questioned yesterday via video link has agreed to use this drug on charlie has never actually met or examined him, has admitted it would be an experiment . It starts to enter a very murky area of essentially testing on humans which is to a degree fine if they can agree to it and if something goes wrong or there are side effects they can be communicated to doctors . The courts will be aware that agreement to allow it in this case Will without a doubt open the floodgates in all kinds of conditions to all manner of experiments being carried out on people , adults, children and babies. For this very reason I don't personally think they will allow it.

 


When I was a young girl my Mother said to me.. You listen here kid you're CPFC

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 15 Jul 17 5.14pm

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becky Flag over the moon 16 Jul 17 6.07pm Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

I cannot understand why people keep going on about how the Doctors in this case (and other similar ones) shouldn't be allowed to "play God"........ surely they played God when they put the poor mite on life support and incubation machines, else he would be dead by now and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 


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wordup Flag 16 Jul 17 6.51pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

There is zero chance for a cure. None of the treatments will be able to reverse the existing damage. I suspect any parent would be prepared to go to Hell and back for their child - But they're also giving this kid morphine because they believe he is in serious pain. The reality for this child, in the best case prognosis is severe brain damage, physical disability and a short life expectancy, that might be extended somewhat from infancy to childhood - likely full of pain and suffering. The likely outcome is that the treatment will have little to no effect other than to extend a life on tubes.

Its not a choice I'd want to make, and its not that often that you hear of paediatric doctors wanting to end the treatment of a child allowing them to die. These experimental treatments, one of them hasn't even started animal trials yet (so its a theoretical treatment).

Difference with Hawking is he is in a position to be able to decide for himself etc.

I wasn't aware of that. It's a heart breaking situation for all concerned. Some people get dealt such a crap hand in life. Poor kid.

 

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