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Jermain Defoe

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Mstrobez Flag 16 Apr 17 8.04pm Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Rule of the thumb:

If a player who normally plays in the center of the pitch can play and is often used as a winger, then he has speed.

David Silva plays on the wing quite often. He's not Speedy Gonzales, but he's ok. And he's past 30, actually used to be even quicker.
Would you ever see Aguero play on the wing? Ever? There are diminutive strikers like Sanchez, Rooney, Palacio, Mertens, Griezmann, Gameiro, Lacazette, Gary Hooper, Matej Vydra, Gayle, they are fast and can, in need, play on the wing. Aguero can't.

Rule number 2:

If a center forward is under the age of 25 and in good shape, skinny (like Harry Kane, Morata) they will run their ass off. At least until they get older


Edited by mattteo (16 Apr 2017 12.59pm)

BTW, just to be pedantic; the answer to your question is yes. He has played on the wing many many times for Argentina with Messi in the centre. Please save the excuses because every theory you ever give is so black and white and for the sake of fairness, following on that theme, you have got it wrong... once again.

Edited by Mstrobez (16 Apr 2017 8.06pm)

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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glazedallover Flag Allier 16 Apr 17 8.26pm Send a Private Message to glazedallover Add glazedallover as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo


FFS

No pace whatsoever.

 

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DANGERCLOSE Flag London 16 Apr 17 8.32pm Send a Private Message to DANGERCLOSE Add DANGERCLOSE as a friend

Still has a couple of seasons left in him, use as a sub

Defoe in Remy out

 

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mattteo Flag 17 Apr 17 9.16am Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by Mstrobez

BTW, just to be pedantic; the answer to your question is yes. He has played on the wing many many times for Argentina with Messi in the centre. Please save the excuses because every theory you ever give is so black and white and for the sake of fairness, following on that theme, you have got it wrong... once again.

Edited by Mstrobez (16 Apr 2017 8.06pm)

Ok. If you think Aguero runs and is hard-working I can't make you change your mind. From my perspective he isn't. I haven't watched Argentina's qualifiers, but after doing some research I saw that he has played on the wing for them as you said, but not many times, more like once a year, in order to appease Higuain, not Messi. The results have been disastrous and it was a master cluster****.

[Link]

In my opinion, he could never play as a winger in a competition like the PL.

Back to Defoe, he used to be much faster, but age doesn't pardon anyone. Now he doesn't run as much as he used to, instead he plays from experience, having better touches and better positioning. However, the clock is still ticking and by the time he would start playing for Palace he'd be 34. Maybe be a good back-up the first year (max 10 goals) and with a decline at 35 (maximum 5 goals per season).

Is that worth it? Don't look at it just from the perspective of acquiring him free. Look at it from the perspective of not promoting a younger forward who you could capitalize upon in 2 years.

 

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mattteo Flag 17 Apr 17 9.19am Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

Still has a couple of seasons left in him, use as a sub

Defoe in Remy out


Yeah, this is the whole point of the debate. Are a couple of seasons really worth it? He'll be released at 35 with no money made from an eventual sale.
Can't we find a 22-24 year old forward who can provide a similar amount of goals as Defoe in a couple of season AND be sold for some serious cash after that?

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 17 Apr 17 9.34am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo


Yeah, this is the whole point of the debate. Are a couple of seasons really worth it? He'll be released at 35 with no money made from an eventual sale.
Can't we find a 22-24 year old forward who can provide a similar amount of goals as Defoe in a couple of season AND be sold for some serious cash after that?

What, like the £4 mil profit made on Gayle? Yeah, serious cash.

How many prem clubs pick up young strikers for peanuts and they prove themselves in the prem?

How many prem academy strikers graduate through the system? Just look at the poor selection of strikers for England. There's never more than 4 good enough.

 


COYP

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tattooedtom Flag Hastings 17 Apr 17 9.40am Send a Private Message to tattooedtom Add tattooedtom as a friend

I went to an evening with Tony Cottee three weeks ago and he told the audience that was gathered - who included quite a few Hammers as you can imagine - that West Ham had already tied up a deal to resign him for next season.

 

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Mstrobez Flag 17 Apr 17 10.55am Send a Private Message to Mstrobez Add Mstrobez as a friend

Originally posted by mattteo

Ok. If you think Aguero runs and is hard-working I can't make you change your mind. From my perspective he isn't. I haven't watched Argentina's qualifiers, but after doing some research I saw that he has played on the wing for them as you said, but not many times, more like once a year, in order to appease Higuain, not Messi. The results have been disastrous and it was a master cluster****.

[Link]

In my opinion, he could never play as a winger in a competition like the PL.

Back to Defoe, he used to be much faster, but age doesn't pardon anyone. Now he doesn't run as much as he used to, instead he plays from experience, having better touches and better positioning. However, the clock is still ticking and by the time he would start playing for Palace he'd be 34. Maybe be a good back-up the first year (max 10 goals) and with a decline at 35 (maximum 5 goals per season).

Is that worth it? Don't look at it just from the perspective of acquiring him free. Look at it from the perspective of not promoting a younger forward who you could capitalize upon in 2 years.

I didn't say that though did, I don't think Aguero does press much or run about at all, hence Pep picking Jesus over him when fit.. He is still faster than David Silva though, I know that by watching them - it's not hard to see!

Anyone being offered Defoe for free in any capacity, and turning down the experience would be very dumb in my opinion, I know you can't comprehend that but the guy is a natural born finisher who can bring something to any team even as a non-starter.

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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mattteo Flag 17 Apr 17 11.57am Send a Private Message to mattteo Add mattteo as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

What, like the £4 mil profit made on Gayle? Yeah, serious cash.

How many prem clubs pick up young strikers for peanuts and they prove themselves in the prem?

How many prem academy strikers graduate through the system? Just look at the poor selection of strikers for England. There's never more than 4 good enough.


It wasn't just Gayle.

Odion Ighalo- bought by Watford for 8 million, sold for 23,5

Matej Vydra- bought for 8,4 and sold for 12 after promoting the team to the Premier League

Berahino- team product, sold for 14 million

Gayle- bought for 5,3 and sold for 12 after many goals and assists in little playing time

Sterling- what's more to say about him? Team product, sold for 62,5 million

Brown Ideye- bought for 5,4, sold for 12 million

Benteke- bought from Genk for 9 million by Aston Villa, sold to Liverpool for 46,5

Lewis Grabban- bought by Norwich for 3,7 million, sold for 9,3

Lukaku- bought for 15 million, sold for 35,5

Shane Long- bought by Hull for 8,5, sold for 15

Luis Suarez- bought for 26,5, sold for 81,7

Danny Welbeck- club product, did very well as long as he played there, still brought in a profit of 20 million

Chicharito- bought from Mexico for 7 million, sold for 15 and they could have/ should have gotten more for him

Loic Remy- bought by QPR for 10,5 and sold for 16

Sadio Mane- bought for 15, sold for 41, 5

Wilfried Bony- bought for 16, sold for 32,3


All of those above were under 27 at the time they were bought, most actually under 23.
Enlisting a 34 year old player has to be done very carefully, taking his overall impact into account.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards robdave2k Flag 17 Apr 17 12.18pm

Originally posted by mattteo


It wasn't just Gayle.

Odion Ighalo- bought by Watford for 8 million, sold for 23,5

Matej Vydra- bought for 8,4 and sold for 12 after promoting the team to the Premier League

Berahino- team product, sold for 14 million

Gayle- bought for 5,3 and sold for 12 after many goals and assists in little playing time

Sterling- what's more to say about him? Team product, sold for 62,5 million

Brown Ideye- bought for 5,4, sold for 12 million

Benteke- bought from Genk for 9 million by Aston Villa, sold to Liverpool for 46,5

Lewis Grabban- bought by Norwich for 3,7 million, sold for 9,3

Lukaku- bought for 15 million, sold for 35,5

Shane Long- bought by Hull for 8,5, sold for 15

Luis Suarez- bought for 26,5, sold for 81,7

Danny Welbeck- club product, did very well as long as he played there, still brought in a profit of 20 million

Chicharito- bought from Mexico for 7 million, sold for 15 and they could have/ should have gotten more for him

Loic Remy- bought by QPR for 10,5 and sold for 16

Sadio Mane- bought for 15, sold for 41, 5

Wilfried Bony- bought for 16, sold for 32,3


All of those above were under 27 at the time they were bought, most actually under 23.
Enlisting a 34 year old player has to be done very carefully, taking his overall impact into account.


Andy Carroll - bought by Liverpool for £35m sold to West Ham for £15m

Jordan Rhodes - bought for £11m by Middlesborough, now on loan at Sheffield Wednesday

Christian Benteke.

You have highlighted the issue above. Any striker who bangs in 20+ goals a season at a young age is signed by a top four club.

Lewis Grabban - based on your facts about that is what a £10m striker is these days.

I'd rather have Defoe.

 

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coulsdoneagle Flag London 17 Apr 17 12.31pm Send a Private Message to coulsdoneagle Add coulsdoneagle as a friend

Defoe isn't going to lose any pace. He is 34, this is how his body will hold up until he retires.

 

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Spiderman Flag Horsham 17 Apr 17 2.04pm Send a Private Message to Spiderman Add Spiderman as a friend

Originally posted by tattooedtom

I went to an evening with Tony Cottee three weeks ago and he told the audience that was gathered - who included quite a few Hammers as you can imagine - that West Ham had already tied up a deal to resign him for next season.

We shall see.

 

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