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Interesting day for the EU and Europe

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chris123 Flag hove actually 05 Dec 16 5.13pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

You don't know much to be fair.

Sounds like they're going to go for another unelected PM to replace this one.

If that's the case that will be 4 on the bounce, with not one of them an elected member of parliament.

 

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 06 Dec 16 9.48am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Renzi said he would resign if he lost.

So in turn, the establishment lost.

Has 'the establishment' come to mean something new. Everyone was going on about Trump being an anti-establishment victory, and he's a old, white, right wing capitalist, who comes from money. And his running mate is about as establishment as they come for a republican. Ok he might not be typically establishment as it political aristocracy (i.e. a Bush or Clinton.

UKIP I get, because a large number of their party candidates are not from non-political circles

 


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matt_himself Flag Matataland 06 Dec 16 10.12am Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Has 'the establishment' come to mean something new. Everyone was going on about Trump being an anti-establishment victory, and he's a old, white, right wing capitalist, who comes from money. And his running mate is about as establishment as they come for a republican. Ok he might not be typically establishment as it political aristocracy (i.e. a Bush or Clinton.

UKIP I get, because a large number of their party candidates are not from non-political circles

There have been three pivotal events this year:

1. EU referendum - establishment wanted a Remain vote. Got beat;
2. US election - Hilary was the establishment candidate. Got beat;
3. Italian referendum - Renzi wanted to change the constitution. He is the establishment figure in Italy. Got beat;

Like it or not, there is a groundswell of rebellion going on in western world.

 


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Kermit8 Flag Hevon 06 Dec 16 10.15am Send a Private Message to Kermit8 Add Kermit8 as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

There have been three pivotal events this year:

1. EU referendum - establishment wanted a Remain vote. Got beat;
2. US election - Hilary was the establishment candidate. Got beat;
3. Italian referendum - Renzi wanted to change the constitution. He is the establishment figure in Italy. Got beat;

Like it or not, there is a groundswell of rebellion going on in western world.

There is. Some sections of the establishment/elite are uprooting other sections of the establishment/elite and are using propaganda to con a huge swathe of folk to go to them for the truth.

 


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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 06 Dec 16 10.36am Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

William Hague said 'and as for the establishment I have been in politics over 20 years and have no idea what it is'.

Is it a bunch of prey-haired old tories secretly running the country?

Don't get it what is the establishment?

The gentleman refers to Italy - is it the Mafia?

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Dec 16 1.09pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

William Hague said 'and as for the establishment I have been in politics over 20 years and have no idea what it is'.

Is it a bunch of prey-haired old tories secretly running the country?

Don't get it what is the establishment?

The gentleman refers to Italy - is it the Mafia?


The Bilderberg group perhaps?

I think we have a loose association of people who share a mutual interest to stay rich at our expense.

Politicians, The Aristocracy, The Judiciary,commerce, The industrial military complex etc, all have over lapping connections that bring mutual benefits.

 

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tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 06 Dec 16 1.26pm Send a Private Message to tome Add tome as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger


The Bilderberg group perhaps?

I think we have a loose association of people who share a mutual interest to stay rich at our expense.

Politicians, The Aristocracy, The Judiciary,commerce, The industrial military complex etc, all have over lapping connections that bring mutual benefits.

I think that's probably right, but do you think Trump, Brexit or the Italian referendum will do anything to change that? i concur with Kermit's infighting amongst the elite analogy too. They're in it for themselves.

 


A one and a two...

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Dec 16 1.40pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Has 'the establishment' come to mean something new. Everyone was going on about Trump being an anti-establishment victory, and he's a old, white, right wing capitalist, who comes from money. And his running mate is about as establishment as they come for a republican. Ok he might not be typically establishment as it political aristocracy (i.e. a Bush or Clinton.

UKIP I get, because a large number of their party candidates are not from non-political circles

In this context I think that the establishment are those who have embraced globalisation, with the key factor being mass immigration, to feather their own nests at the expense of the nation state and the existing population.
It is difficult to point to a specific person or group who can be seen as responsible, so a generalisation like "the establishment" is created as the enemy.

Trump is an opportunist and not of the Washington elite and he has recreated himself as the hero of the naysayers in the US.

I find it a rather uncomfortable situation since his support includes the Bible belt and the pro gun lobby who's attitude and beliefs are beyond bonkers, plus his obvious lack of experience and tact for the office of President.
To elect such a person, people are obviously very desperate about how their country is being changed.
The enormous influx of Mexicans obviously has a lot to do with it whether people admit that or not.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 06 Dec 16 1.56pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by tome

I think that's probably right, but do you think Trump, Brexit or the Italian referendum will do anything to change that? i concur with Kermit's infighting amongst the elite analogy too. They're in it for themselves.

Yes I think there is a never ending, self serving effort among politicians and their puppet masters to gain influence, wealth and power. As the people, baring becoming a politician, our only influence is at the ballot box or starting a "revolution". The latter is doomed to failure but we can make our feelings clear though every avenue possible. Brexit shows what happens when you defy the people once too often. All elections in the near future will be influenced by that vote.

 

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.TUX. Flag 06 Dec 16 1.56pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

There have been three pivotal events this year:

1. EU referendum - establishment wanted a Remain vote. Got beat;
2. US election - Hilary was the establishment candidate. Got beat;
3. Italian referendum - Renzi wanted to change the constitution. He is the establishment figure in Italy. Got beat;

Like it or not, there is a groundswell of rebellion going on in western world.

It's hardly a defeat tbf as the establishment have exactly what they wanted from Hillary, Goldman Sachs faces in the mix. Trump's already installed Steve Mnuchin as US Treasury Secretary.

Job done.

 


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.TUX. Flag 06 Dec 16 2.00pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes I think there is a never ending, self serving effort among politicians and their puppet masters to gain influence, wealth and power. As the people, baring becoming a politician, our only influence is at the ballot box or starting a "revolution". The latter is doomed to failure but we can make our feelings clear though every avenue possible. Brexit shows what happens when you defy the people once too often. All elections in the near future will be influenced by that vote.

With all due respect, all it shows is that 'divide and rule' is working a treat.
And yes, a revolution is needed, but that'll never happen. (see above)

 


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The White Horse Flag 06 Dec 16 2.40pm Send a Private Message to The White Horse Add The White Horse as a friend

What I struggle with is what happens when people realise that electing a total knobhead, or reclaiming national sovereignty without an agreed plan has been a cock up. In both cases society will still be divided, unequal and have massive social problems.

Do you abandon the "anti-establishment" thing or do you go even more hardcore? It's a bit like going Miliband for something a bit more left wing, then Corbyn. Where does it end?

 


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