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chris123 hove actually 05 Dec 16 5.13pm | |
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Originally posted by Stuk
You don't know much to be fair. Sounds like they're going to go for another unelected PM to replace this one. If that's the case that will be 4 on the bounce, with not one of them an elected member of parliament.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Dec 16 9.48am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Renzi said he would resign if he lost. So in turn, the establishment lost. Has 'the establishment' come to mean something new. Everyone was going on about Trump being an anti-establishment victory, and he's a old, white, right wing capitalist, who comes from money. And his running mate is about as establishment as they come for a republican. Ok he might not be typically establishment as it political aristocracy (i.e. a Bush or Clinton. UKIP I get, because a large number of their party candidates are not from non-political circles
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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matt_himself Matataland 06 Dec 16 10.12am | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Has 'the establishment' come to mean something new. Everyone was going on about Trump being an anti-establishment victory, and he's a old, white, right wing capitalist, who comes from money. And his running mate is about as establishment as they come for a republican. Ok he might not be typically establishment as it political aristocracy (i.e. a Bush or Clinton. UKIP I get, because a large number of their party candidates are not from non-political circles There have been three pivotal events this year: 1. EU referendum - establishment wanted a Remain vote. Got beat; Like it or not, there is a groundswell of rebellion going on in western world.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Dec 16 10.15am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
There have been three pivotal events this year: 1. EU referendum - establishment wanted a Remain vote. Got beat; Like it or not, there is a groundswell of rebellion going on in western world. There is. Some sections of the establishment/elite are uprooting other sections of the establishment/elite and are using propaganda to con a huge swathe of folk to go to them for the truth.
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steeleye20 Croydon 06 Dec 16 10.36am | |
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William Hague said 'and as for the establishment I have been in politics over 20 years and have no idea what it is'. Is it a bunch of prey-haired old tories secretly running the country? Don't get it what is the establishment? The gentleman refers to Italy - is it the Mafia?
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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Dec 16 1.09pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
William Hague said 'and as for the establishment I have been in politics over 20 years and have no idea what it is'. Is it a bunch of prey-haired old tories secretly running the country? Don't get it what is the establishment? The gentleman refers to Italy - is it the Mafia?
I think we have a loose association of people who share a mutual interest to stay rich at our expense. Politicians, The Aristocracy, The Judiciary,commerce, The industrial military complex etc, all have over lapping connections that bring mutual benefits.
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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 06 Dec 16 1.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think we have a loose association of people who share a mutual interest to stay rich at our expense. Politicians, The Aristocracy, The Judiciary,commerce, The industrial military complex etc, all have over lapping connections that bring mutual benefits. I think that's probably right, but do you think Trump, Brexit or the Italian referendum will do anything to change that? i concur with Kermit's infighting amongst the elite analogy too. They're in it for themselves.
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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Dec 16 1.40pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Has 'the establishment' come to mean something new. Everyone was going on about Trump being an anti-establishment victory, and he's a old, white, right wing capitalist, who comes from money. And his running mate is about as establishment as they come for a republican. Ok he might not be typically establishment as it political aristocracy (i.e. a Bush or Clinton. UKIP I get, because a large number of their party candidates are not from non-political circles In this context I think that the establishment are those who have embraced globalisation, with the key factor being mass immigration, to feather their own nests at the expense of the nation state and the existing population. Trump is an opportunist and not of the Washington elite and he has recreated himself as the hero of the naysayers in the US. I find it a rather uncomfortable situation since his support includes the Bible belt and the pro gun lobby who's attitude and beliefs are beyond bonkers, plus his obvious lack of experience and tact for the office of President.
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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Dec 16 1.56pm | |
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Originally posted by tome
I think that's probably right, but do you think Trump, Brexit or the Italian referendum will do anything to change that? i concur with Kermit's infighting amongst the elite analogy too. They're in it for themselves. Yes I think there is a never ending, self serving effort among politicians and their puppet masters to gain influence, wealth and power. As the people, baring becoming a politician, our only influence is at the ballot box or starting a "revolution". The latter is doomed to failure but we can make our feelings clear though every avenue possible. Brexit shows what happens when you defy the people once too often. All elections in the near future will be influenced by that vote.
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.TUX. 06 Dec 16 1.56pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
There have been three pivotal events this year: 1. EU referendum - establishment wanted a Remain vote. Got beat; Like it or not, there is a groundswell of rebellion going on in western world. It's hardly a defeat tbf as the establishment have exactly what they wanted from Hillary, Goldman Sachs faces in the mix. Trump's already installed Steve Mnuchin as US Treasury Secretary. Job done.
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.TUX. 06 Dec 16 2.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Yes I think there is a never ending, self serving effort among politicians and their puppet masters to gain influence, wealth and power. As the people, baring becoming a politician, our only influence is at the ballot box or starting a "revolution". The latter is doomed to failure but we can make our feelings clear though every avenue possible. Brexit shows what happens when you defy the people once too often. All elections in the near future will be influenced by that vote. With all due respect, all it shows is that 'divide and rule' is working a treat.
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The White Horse 06 Dec 16 2.40pm | |
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What I struggle with is what happens when people realise that electing a total knobhead, or reclaiming national sovereignty without an agreed plan has been a cock up. In both cases society will still be divided, unequal and have massive social problems. Do you abandon the "anti-establishment" thing or do you go even more hardcore? It's a bit like going Miliband for something a bit more left wing, then Corbyn. Where does it end?
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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