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big fat london boy  gillingham..(pykey land) 18 Mar 04 7.31pm |
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stick that in your pipe and smoke it bongo boy... Quote Petealiator at 18 Mar 2004 5:51pm
Quote Matt_Hep at 18 Mar 2004 1:44pm
I don't feel there is anything to be patriotic about. Our history and tradition is completly irrelevant and archaic now. We are just a bizarre country with a mish-mash of cultures, no-one is sure exactly what being English is as we have no identity. f***ing art students! Gawd save us all! How the living f*** can history and tradition be irrelevent? It's shaped everything in the modern world! It's created what we are today, it's moulded who we are today and continues to. Everything in the entire world is born of history and tradition! No identity? You are kidding right? To be English is to be part of the world's richest culture. From this sceptred isle sprang talents as diverse as Orwell and Chaplin, Kipling and Shakespeare, Nelson and Joe Strummer. In every field, in every era, the evidence of English greatness is there for all to see, from the enduring genius of Elgar to the magic of Michael Owen's goal against the Argies. As Ian Dury once sang: "There are jewels in the crown of England's glory, too numerous to mention, but a few." OK, not many of us know more than the first two lines of There'll Always Be An England, but we do know that our country gave the world football, cricket, rugby, tennis, the Beatles and Dickens. As a people we are not given to chest beating. Reserve and restraint are as much English qualities as inventiveness and enterprise. But we do resent the way Englishness is sneered at by the chattering classes. For them, the cross of St George is tainted by memories of empire (even though the Royal Navy smashed the slave trade). It has been like this for decades. More than 50 years ago, George Orwell wrote that "England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their nationality." These s******ing fools don't even know the roots of their own radicalism. For every Francis Drake in English history there was a Wat Tyler. For every Wellington there was a Captain Swing. Military achievement understandably shaped our self image. The stout Yeomen of England have been beating off invaders for centuries. We are strong-willed people, rightly proud of our traditions of free speech and tolerance. Our defining national characteristic is "constructive bloodymindedness" according to Keith Waterhouse, one of the greatest living Englishmen. Illustrated by the phrase "thus far and no further", it is why most of us refuse to take Europe seriously. European? Never. I was born English and I will die English, (unless South London achieves independence). A soggy croissant will never replace egg, bacon and buttered toast. Whether your England is summed up by a bowler hat or a pit helmet, punk rock or Morris dancers, there are few national tapestries as rich as our beloved Albion's. My England is bubble and squeak and foaming pints of Boddingtons. It is Les Dawson and Barbara Windsor, Max Miller and Page Three. My England is pie and mash and Aston Martins, Derby day and Arfur Daley, Mods and Suedeheads, Lennie McLean and Carry On films. My England stretches from Dennis Skinner to Roger Scruton, from Peggy Mount to Beki Bondage. It's Blackpool beach, Charlie Drake, Charlton Athletic FC, roast beef, imperial measurements and vindaloo. It's defiance. Whether it be King Alfred standing up to the Vikings, Colonel H at Goose Green, or the Metric Martyrs giving the finger to Brussels. No-one likes us! We don't care! Garry Bushell. Edited by Petealiator (18 Mar 2004 5:55pm)
There's never a country in the world with the scent of an ENGLISH rose..... |
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 Petealiator 1066 Country! 18 Mar 04 9.04pm |
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That country with no identity, you know the one, the one with no culture and an irrelevant history... Well here's my England: Fish & Chips, Pie & Mash, Tower Bridge, King Edward I (Longshanks), Sex Pistols, Mods & Rockers, Skins & Punks, Charles Wells Bombardier, Crystal Palace Football Club, King Alfred The Great, King Edward III at the Battle Of Crecy, The Black Prince, Robin Hood, West Norwood Cinders Pitch, Doc Marten Boots, Ben Sherman shirts, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Bernard Cornwell, James Herbert, Only Fools and Horses, Blackadder, Red Dwarf, Curry sauce over yer jockey-whips, Page three, the flag of St George, Bobby Moore, Ian Wright & Mark Bright, Steve Coppell, Winchester Cathedral, Warwick Castle, The Serpantine, Knights Hill, King Aethelstan, Cock Sparrer, The Business, The Cockney Rejects, Badger Golden Champion Ale, the word 'bollocks', The Supermarine Spitfire, The Hurricane, Sir Winston Churchill, The Lancaster Bomber, Dad's Army, King Arthur the once and future king, the white cliffs of Dover, Elgar, Sid James, the Sunday Roast, the 2004 Rugby World Cup Final, the 1966 Football World Cup Final, the FA Cup, the Anglo-Saxons, King Raedwald, King Offa, King Edmund, Aethelflaed lady of the Mercians, Madness, Bad Manners, Henry V at Agincourt, the Battle of Britain, the River Thames, Carry On Films, Wembley Stadium... I could go on, and on, and on, what about you lot?
My Rocksteady band... |
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| big fat london boy gillingham..(pykey land) 18 Mar 04 9.13pm |
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Edited by big fat london boy (18 Mar 2004 9:14pm)
There's never a country in the world with the scent of an ENGLISH rose..... |
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| Matt_Hep Block B 18 Mar 04 11.01pm |
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wow, certainly stirred a reaction! That's a moving list Pete, and yeah, I could certainly compose one of my own of equal length. It doesn't mean to say I'm proud of being English. I don't want to be associated with the majority of English people. I cringe when we cause trouble at every major footballing event, when we go to tacky Spanish holiday resorts, get sunburnt and insist on drinking pints of beer. Obviously a lot of you are highly patriotic, but personally I'm not that fussed about being English. I've learned there is much more to be had from foreign cultures. Penge- You misunderstood, probably my fault. I was trying to suggest that this modern day ultra pride in being English is almost a two fingers up at anyone who is not. It's aggressive and definitely comes out when England play abroad. Our history is a proud one, but like I tried to point out the traditions are no longer relevant at all. Our mainstream culture is a pretty nasty one, walk through Croydon highstreet at 11 at night and make up your own minds.
Edited by Matt_Hep (18 Mar 2004 11:32pm)
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 19 Mar 04 12.21am |
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Matt, I agree with you - I actually think Benidorm should be carpet bombed! But I think you are wrong to suggest the majority of English people are "Brits Abroad arseholes" - it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation! You can still be patriotic and embrace other cultures you know! How about embracing English culture? When you say there is an "ultra pride in being English" - another generalisation. I'm not like that, you're not like that, so why is everyone else? There's good and bad in every nation! What you've done is select the bad points of our society and are ashamed to be English because of that. You now see the good points of other cultures and think everything is all rosy there. If you actually lived out there, you will see bad things such as their version of "Croydon", along with a lot of racism across Europe for example. I could go on... Does this mean you hate German people/culture because of their bad past - WW1 and WW2? Or hate Irish people because they're all IRA bombers? I hope not!
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| Matt_Hep Block B 19 Mar 04 1.59am |
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Quote Penge Eagle at 19 Mar 2004 12:21am
When you say there is an "ultra pride in being English" - another generalisation. I'm not like that, you're not like that, so why is everyone else? What you've done is select the bad points of our society and are ashamed to be English because of that. You now see the good points of other cultures and think everything is all rosy there. If you actually lived out there, you will see bad things such as their version of "Croydon", along with a lot of racism across Europe for example. I could go on... Does this mean you hate German people/culture because of their bad past - WW1 and WW2? Or hate Irish people because they're all IRA bombers? I hope not!
You're right, my post was one big generalisation, but in this case it's proven to be correct. Look at the sort of responses I've had: "SHUT THE f*** UP.BE ENGLISH AND BE PROUD TO SAY THAT YOU ARE.... " This typifies the sort of aggressive patriotism I'm talking about and although it is a generalisation, it is still pretty relavent to mainstream beliefs, as proved by this small, cross section of people. You're dead right about selecting bad points of the English culture however, a pretty one sided viewpoint I offered up. The final point - I don't hate Germans because of their past at all, this generation are not to blame, in the same way we are not fit to celebrate past victories, it's no longer relevant. However the British are keen to recall old war victories and colonial conquests, even refusing to run from the Italian police was apparently cause for celebration.
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Aussie Eagle  Back in cold Canberra 19 Mar 04 4.08am |
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England suffers the same problem as Aus. A small group who go overseas and act like d*ckheads tar the reputation of a whole country.
Herefordshire Cider - The way forward! |
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| reborn 19 Mar 04 7.41am |
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Matt I could post something more intelligent but you know what I won't....apologetic leftie idiots like you are to blame for much of what ails this ghreat country of ours.... Problem is you see what ever serves your self righteous left leaning philosophy and you know what....you are an embarresment....... Quote Matt_Hep at 18 Mar 2004 11:01pm
wow, certainly stirred a reaction! That's a moving list Pete, and yeah, I could certainly compose one of my own of equal length. It doesn't mean to say I'm proud of being English. I don't want to be associated with the majority of English people. I cringe when we cause trouble at every major footballing event, when we go to tacky Spanish holiday resorts, get sunburnt and insist on drinking pints of beer. Obviously a lot of you are highly patriotic, but personally I'm not that fussed about being English. I've learned there is much more to be had from foreign cultures. Penge- You misunderstood, probably my fault. I was trying to suggest that this modern day ultra pride in being English is almost a two fingers up at anyone who is not. It's aggressive and definitely comes out when England play abroad. Our history is a proud one, but like I tried to point out the traditions are no longer relevant at all. Our mainstream culture is a pretty nasty one, walk through Croydon highstreet at 11 at night and make up your own minds.
Edited by Matt_Hep (18 Mar 2004 11:32pm)
My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs |
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| Palace Hero Melbourne, Australia 19 Mar 04 7.47am |
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I left England aged three. But having lived in another culture, one well respected as being carefree and relaxed, and also experienced England, through family and extended spells there, I must say I am more than proud to be English. I've worked my hardest to retain my accent after 15 years, I follow the my local football club by birth and love the place, whether it be the beautiful countryside, the industrial north, the wonderful and diverse London and the different countries we border. It is this intriguing, and versitile environment in which England exists that I love, aswell as the personality of the nation.
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| reborn 19 Mar 04 8.18am |
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good for you..that name is merited ! Quote Palace Hero at 19 Mar 2004 7:47am
I left England aged three. But having lived in another culture, one well respected as being carefree and relaxed, and also experienced England, through family and extended spells there, I must say I am more than proud to be English. I've worked my hardest to retain my accent after 15 years, I follow the my local football club by birth and love the place, whether it be the beautiful countryside, the industrial north, the wonderful and diverse London and the different countries we border. It is this intriguing, and versitile environment in which England exists that I love, aswell as the personality of the nation.
My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs |
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| se19_palace RASCLARTING ABOUT SOOOOLECTARRR 19 Mar 04 8.30am |
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No one likes, me no one likes me, no one likes me coz im a c**t, im 19 super 19 i am 19 from the HOOD |
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| matt_the_eagle Tulse Thrill 19 Mar 04 8.58am |
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I don't know why people can't be proud to be English and have respect for other cultures. I do, and so much so I'm moving to South East Asia for a year to learn more about the East. Will I still be proud to be English? Yes. Will I where my England shirt with pride? Yes. People who profess to hate this country, be ashamed of it's poeple and long to leave, should - let's see how much you last elsewehere in this world - you don't know how good you've got it.
I think Keith Murray said it best when he rapped I'm sure you'll agree. |
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