This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Weatherspoons fined for banning p*****
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
jamiemartin721  Reading 20 May 15 10.25am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.07am
Quote palace777 at 20 May 2015 9.58am
just for your info.gay marriage is legal in N,Ireland and was before anywere else in the U.K!! Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal. just for your info.gay marriage is legal in N,Ireland and was before anywere else in the U.K!! Just for your info. same-sex 'marriage' is a devolved issue and Northern Ireland does not permit it. Same-sex marriages from other jurisdictions are treated as civil partnerships. The Northern Ireland Executive has stated that it does not intend to introduce legislation allowing for same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland Which is almost exactly the same thing as marriage in terms of rights, but not wording, which can cause problems in relation to next of kin, inheritance and probate. The whole fiasco of 'protecting the religious sanctity of marriage' is a sham anyhow, as marriage is a legal state anyhow, it requires no religious involvement.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
| derben 20 May 15 10.28am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). You could refuse to promote political promotions, but in doing so you must be consistent, non-discriminatory and upfront. A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it?
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
 palace777  belfast 20 May 15 10.29am |
  |
|---|---|
|
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.07am
Quote palace777 at 20 May 2015 9.58am
just for your info.gay marriage is legal in N,Ireland and was before anywere else in the U.K!! Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal. just for your info.gay marriage is legal in N,Ireland and was before anywere else in the U.K!! Just for your info. same-sex 'marriage' is a devolved issue and Northern Ireland does not permit it. Same-sex marriages from other jurisdictions are treated as civil partnerships. The Northern Ireland Executive has stated that it does not intend to introduce legislation allowing for same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland I bow to your superior knowledge
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 May 15 10.33am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). You could refuse to promote political promotions, but in doing so you must be consistent, non-discriminatory and upfront. A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it? No because that would be reasonable to refuse as it doesn't violate commercial practice law.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| derben 20 May 15 10.36am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.33am
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it? No because that would be reasonable to refuse as it doesn't violate commercial practice law. same-sex marriage is a political issue.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| npn Crowborough 20 May 15 11.37am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). You could refuse to promote political promotions, but in doing so you must be consistent, non-discriminatory and upfront. A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public.
They accepted the order, then turned it down later - are you saying that it would be fine if they'd rejected the order up front (which makes a mockery of the whole case, in my opinion)? As for refusing to promote political causes, that would be fine, but you "have to be upfront" about it? Does that mean you have to list all the things you are NOT willing to put on a cake before you've been asked to do so? I am totally for non-discrimitation on the grounds of pretty much anything, but I'm also totally for the rights of anyone (business or personal) to refuse to promote something they feel strongly against. Would a vegan baker have to produce a "bring back fox hunting" cake? In fact, forget the cakes - what about printers? Should a printer be obliged by law to print whatever they are asked? BNP leaflets, for instance? Or is it simply the fact that someone accepted the order and later cancelled it which is the problem (which, again, makes a mockery of the law if you're allowed to reject outright, just not accept and reject later). Shoe on the other foot: would a gay baker be obliged to make a "ban gay marriage" cake?
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Southampton_Eagle At the after party 20 May 15 11.50am |
|
|---|---|
|
Ah. P*kies in 'kicking off because everyone knows we're horrible c*nts' shocker. When I was a bar manager the pub & restaurant got trashed by a group of p*kies as one of my bar staff asked if they could put on shoes & tops to eat in the restaurant.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 May 15 12.58pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
They accepted the order, then turned it down later - are you saying that it would be fine if they'd rejected the order up front (which makes a mockery of the whole case, in my opinion)? Yes, if they have a corporate policy then it should be communicated to the staff and practiced - You don't have to accept someone's custom, I suppose (although you can't refuse them on the basis of being gay) but once you have taken an order you have entered into a contract with that party. Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
As for refusing to promote political causes, that would be fine, but you "have to be upfront" about it? Does that mean you have to list all the things you are NOT willing to put on a cake before you've been asked to do so? I would imagine that you should communicate that policy to your staff and the people taking orders. Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
I am totally for non-discrimitation on the grounds of pretty much anything, but I'm also totally for the rights of anyone (business or personal) to refuse to promote something they feel strongly against. I disagree with the part in regards to a business, as a business, except maybe as applies to a sole trader, as a business is not a person, but a collection of people. Furthermore, businesses have to operate in line with commercial law and regulation. Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
Would a vegan baker have to produce a "bring back fox hunting" cake? As in the example above, would a muslim have to produce one with Mo on it? Its not about an individual, this is about a company violating contract law and commercial law on the basis of the views of some of its owners. In either case both could turn down the order but they cannot accept it, and then change their minds. Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
In fact, forget the cakes - what about printers? Should a printer be obliged by law to print whatever they are asked? BNP leaflets, for instance? They aren't required to, as a service they do not have to enter into a contract, but if they do accept a contract then they are bound by it. Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
Or is it simply the fact that someone accepted the order and later cancelled it which is the problem (which, again, makes a mockery of the law if you're allowed to reject outright, just not accept and reject later). By rejecting it later, you're breaking the contract with the ordering party, which opens you to redress. Same as any contract, once you accept it, you can't just break it without redress or recourse for the aggrieved party. I work Quote npn at 20 May 2015 11.37am
Shoe on the other foot: would a gay baker be obliged to make a "ban gay marriage" cake? If they accepted the contract in the first place, then yes. In addition to that you cannot discriminate against a client based on race, gender, sexual orientation or religion (ie you have to find another reason to turn down their business).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 May 15 1.00pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.36am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.33am
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it? No because that would be reasonable to refuse as it doesn't violate commercial practice law. same-sex marriage is a political issue.
Which would be fine, if they hadn't accepted the order. You can refuse contracts till the cows come home as long as its not on grounds identified under the Equal Opportunities Act. But once you enter into a contract, such as accepting an order, you are bound by contract law. Even if you don't like what you've contracted to do.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| derben 20 May 15 1.19pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 1.00pm
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.36am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.33am
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it? No because that would be reasonable to refuse as it doesn't violate commercial practice law. same-sex marriage is a political issue.
Which would be fine, if they hadn't accepted the order. You can refuse contracts till the cows come home as long as its not on grounds identified under the Equal Opportunities Act. But once you enter into a contract, such as accepting an order, you are bound by contract law. Even if you don't like what you've contracted to do. It wasn't a political issue when they accepted the order. The gay man, so concerned about his rights, made it a political issue when he specified the wording, ie: he moved the goalposts.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 May 15 1.29pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 1.19pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 1.00pm
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.36am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.33am
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it? No because that would be reasonable to refuse as it doesn't violate commercial practice law. same-sex marriage is a political issue.
Which would be fine, if they hadn't accepted the order. You can refuse contracts till the cows come home as long as its not on grounds identified under the Equal Opportunities Act. But once you enter into a contract, such as accepting an order, you are bound by contract law. Even if you don't like what you've contracted to do. It wasn't a political issue when they accepted the order. The gay man, so concerned about his rights, made it a political issue when he specified the wording, ie: he moved the goalposts. Not according the Judicary, they found that the business acted in breach of contract and violation of business law.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| derben 20 May 15 1.30pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 1.29pm
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 1.19pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 1.00pm
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.36am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.33am
Quote derben at 20 May 2015 10.28am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 10.23am
Quote npn at 20 May 2015 9.58am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 20 May 2015 9.30am
Quote derben at 19 May 2015 7.11pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 19 May 2015 3.02pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 19 May 2015 2.55pm
LOL the previous year the gaff got ripped up so you can't blame them. It's the landlord's discretion IMO. However, considering the Irish bakery just got busted for refusing to make a gay cake it shows that one cannot exclude anybody based on their make up. Commercial law, a business must provide services in line with UK law on discrimination. You can't refuse paid services or goods to people on the basis of race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. Quite right too. The Irish Bakery didn't just get busted, they lost their appeal, again.
It is highly amusing that the courts uphold someone's right to call for gay marriage, a concept not recognised or legal in Northern Ireland. The bakery owners are prosecuted, not for denying a service on the basis of sexual orientation, but on the grounds that they did not want to promote an illegal concept. Does this 'judgement' mean that bakeries must allow any message on a cake, 'legalise pedophilia' for example, or 'blow up Stormont'? Its not an illegal concept. Gay marriage isn't permitted in NI, but its not illegal either (if you are married elsewhere, and return to NI you are still married). They're also in violation of laws regarding commercial practice, which take priority in the governance of businesses. NI also permits the Same Sex Partnership under the civil union laws. The gay marriage acts are to ratify certain rights that could be technically excluded under civil unions due to wording in contracts such as pensions. The claim is civil, not criminal.
A petty example, but would you feel OK about refusing to bake a cake with "Brighton forever" on it? A less petty example, if you were a muslim baker, would you feel obliged to produce a cake with the image of the prophet on it? It's not illegal, but something you personally feel flies in the face of your religious beliefs Then they probably shouldn't have accepted the order. Your personal or religious beliefs however do not trump Commercial Laws and Business law in the UK, which requires fair service to citizens from all businesses (and fairness of service includes to all groups identified in the equal opportunities act). A business is not the sole authority of its owners, it has obligations to state and the public. So, would they have to put say "Ashers Bakery makes awful cakes" on it? No because that would be reasonable to refuse as it doesn't violate commercial practice law. same-sex marriage is a political issue.
Which would be fine, if they hadn't accepted the order. You can refuse contracts till the cows come home as long as its not on grounds identified under the Equal Opportunities Act. But once you enter into a contract, such as accepting an order, you are bound by contract law. Even if you don't like what you've contracted to do. It wasn't a political issue when they accepted the order. The gay man, so concerned about his rights, made it a political issue when he specified the wording, ie: he moved the goalposts. Not according the Judicary, they found that the business acted in breach of contract and violation of business law. The judiciary used to imprison gay men, that was wrong too. Edited by derben (20 May 2015 1.47pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.