You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Question for the lefties
November 24 2024 12.42am

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Question for the lefties

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 5 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

  

Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 07 May 15 10.40am Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote npn at 07 May 2015 10.16am

I wish it were - as it stands, UKIP look likely to get 15% of the vote, Greens 5%, yet the Greens will get one voice in parliament (probably) and UKIP maybe 3 at a real push - democracy? Constituencies are, as far as I can tell, totally pointless.

Two advantages of FPTP:

1. we could bin Cameron today (or whoever was PM), no questions asked, simply by voting. We are not dependent on party lists, backroom deals, internal party wranglings. If we want rid, we vote for the opposition, he goes.

2. Your MP represents YOU (and the people in your area). Most 'representatives' in PR systems are placemen with little more than symbolic representation. If you have some ratbag who you can't stand, in FPTP, if you don't vote for him, he gets nowhere. In PR, the party decides. If he's high up enough on the list, even if the locals hate him, he gets a seat.

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 May 15 10.43am

Quote We are goin up! at 07 May 2015 10.29am

Quote npn at 07 May 2015 10.16am

Quote We are goin up! at 07 May 2015 9.22am

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 7.58pm

Quote topcat at 06 May 2015 7.54pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 6.38pm

Despite your potshots at UKIP, you must be gutted that you have lost this election.

Therefore, who do you blame?

I blame Ukip. They promised up to 40 MPs and were expected to split the far right vote. However despite the Tory election campaign being pretty poor they look as if they will be lucky to get a handful of MPs, possibly only one.

Couldn't care less.

Both the major parties have adopted UKIP policies to get votes.

That is success.


Edited by matt_himself (06 May 2015 7.58pm)


Is the truth, whether you like it or not. Democracy at work.


I wish it were - as it stands, UKIP look likely to get 15% of the vote, Greens 5%, yet the Greens will get one voice in parliament (probably) and UKIP maybe 3 at a real push - democracy? Constituencies are, as far as I can tell, totally pointless.


Yes but those fringe parties have pushed their issues onto the main parties. UKIP wanted a referendum and now they've essentially made the Conservatives promise one. That is democracy at work, since it's likely that the Tories will be the largest party. So from no party promising it, a party with in all likelihood 280 seats is promising it. That is democracy.

FPTP has its faults but I think it's more likely to produce stable government than PR. People saying "well it works in Europe"... Has it really? Last time I checked Europe was in the sh*t

The aim of democracy isn't to produce a stable government, its to produce a government that is representative of the electorate. The job of government is to then work together to achieve stability whilst representing their electorate.

If 10% of the countries voters fascists, then 10% of the government should be fascists. The fact that about 8-12% of the country voted Green or UKIP and returned 1 MP between them undermines any idea that we have a representative democracy.

Hilariously, the government will represent about 20-30% of the population that votes.

 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 May 15 10.48am

Quote Johnny Eagles at 07 May 2015 10.40am

Quote npn at 07 May 2015 10.16am

I wish it were - as it stands, UKIP look likely to get 15% of the vote, Greens 5%, yet the Greens will get one voice in parliament (probably) and UKIP maybe 3 at a real push - democracy? Constituencies are, as far as I can tell, totally pointless.

Two advantages of FPTP:

1. we could bin Cameron today (or whoever was PM), no questions asked, simply by voting. We are not dependent on party lists, backroom deals, internal party wranglings. If we want rid, we vote for the opposition, he goes.

2. Your MP represents YOU (and the people in your area). Most 'representatives' in PR systems are placemen with little more than symbolic representation. If you have some ratbag who you can't stand, in FPTP, if you don't vote for him, he gets nowhere. In PR, the party decides. If he's high up enough on the list, even if the locals hate him, he gets a seat.

My local MP is a tory, in a relative safe seat, who is not local. In no way are they any more representative.

In reality of course most people don't seem to vote based on their MP, but on their MP's party. I haven't seen many people switch their vote in a general election because the sitting MP was a c**t. Wokingham had Redgrave for decades, and even many of the Tory voters there didn't really like him. I doubt many, if any went, f**k that guy, I'm voting Lib Dem or Labour.

Of course if in PR systems he's a total cock, then those people who he was fostered on, won't vote for that party next time around.


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Mr Fenandes Flag 07 May 15 11.08am Send a Private Message to Mr Fenandes Add Mr Fenandes as a friend

Quote Superfly at 07 May 2015 9.02am

Quote mikebcpfc at 06 May 2015 8.44pm

Why is it when you discuss politics and peoples view's on it, most people, like on this thread - turn into complete and utter c***s?


I wouldn't say c***s - I'd stick with children. It's a hugely pitiful and embarrassing thread that designed not to spark debate but cause playground antagonism. One things for sure, whatever the outcome in the polls, this place is going to be unbearable for a while. I fuking hate politics.

People set themselves up as Left or Right wing and that's them sorted for any argument ever, and won't stray from their party's policies no matter what. Evident in every single political thread on HOL.

I'm very liberal but at the same time believe in a Eugenics programme/one-child policy. Sometimes it's nice to cross the fence.

 

Check out our Croydon-based football comedy series 'Road to F.A. Cup'!
All episodes available FREE here: [Link]
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
gambler Flag Kent 07 May 15 11.31am Send a Private Message to gambler Add gambler as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 6.38pm

Despite your potshots at UKIP, you must be gutted that you have lost this election.

Therefore, who do you blame?


You plonker ......

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
gambler Flag Kent 07 May 15 11.42am Send a Private Message to gambler Add gambler as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 9.24pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 9.17pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 9.09pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 9.00pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 8.54pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 8.48pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 8.22pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 8.08pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 8.03pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 7.57pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 7.54pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 7.51pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 7.13pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 7.12pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 7.09pm

Quote matt_himself at 06 May 2015 6.38pm

Despite your potshots at UKIP, you must be gutted that you have lost this election.

Therefore, who do you blame?

You've come in your pants there tootsie, if the latest polls are anything to go by...


Final YouGov Nowcast: Con 276, Lab 276, Lib Dem 23, UKIP 1, SNP 51 [Link]

So you are saying that Labour are left wing?

Interesting.

No, that the anti austerity, we hold the balance of power, SNP are in the driving seat.

Excuse me.

Do you think Labour are 'anti austerity'?

More to the point, why hasn't the 'anti austerity' got votes outside of Scotland?


Are you thick?


I ask again. Do you think Labour are anti austerity?

Furthermore, answer the original question. Why have the left failed int his election?


Labour are not anti austerity.
I might answer the second question after the election.
As far as I'm concerned, Labour (lesser of the 2 main party evils) with a left leaning SNP coalition is probably my most favoured of the likely outcomes.


Don't dodge the question.

According to you the 'masses' we're going to rise against austerity.

austerity simply isn't an issue in this election, as far as the voters are concerned.

'Credible' TUSC will lose all their deposits.

The left has lost.

Plus, you hate Labour, why are you potentially celebrating them getting power? Hypocrisy?


UKIP lost their deposits in their first GE.
If you had the intellectual capacity to digest what I wrote, you would have seen that I said labour are the lesser of 2 evils.
If a left wing SNP form part of a UK government, how would the left have lost?

Hypocrite.

You have said previously that Labour betray socialist ideals, yet here you are lauding them as the least worse option.

I therefore ask again, why has the 'anti austerity' movement achieved nothing in this election?

The Greens, Respect and 'credible' TUSC will be nowhere. Why?


Edited by matt_himself (06 May 2015 8.49pm)

Because they won't get as many votes as the other parties. It's not that difficult to comprehend is it?
Why were ukip nowhere in their first election? My word Matthew the old grey matter isn't working for you tonight is it?


Why won't they get as many votes as others?

Why has sir message not resonated with voters?


Hmm, let me think. Lack of media coverage, right wing media barons with fingers in the pies being pro austerity, despite its massive failure, fledgling grass roots party.
Still, getting enough candidates to be eligible for a PEB isn't bad in a first election.

Now answer my question Why didn't UKIP do very well in their first GE? (and why won't they do well in this one?)


Love this.

You won't admit that the 'anti austerity' thing is crap.

UKIP have won. Both main parties have pledged to 'curb immigration' plus the Tories have committed to referendum.

I am actually now thinking of voting Tory just to piss off people like you and Crystal Balls.


1. I don't think the anti austerity thing is crap. I believe it has been used as an ideological weapon to slash public services and serves a few at a cost to the many.
2. You haven't answered my question.
3. 'I'm voting Tory to piss off...' someone on a message board. Sums you up.


 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
masonic_palace Flag Gatport Airwick 07 May 15 1.08pm Send a Private Message to masonic_palace Add masonic_palace as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 May 2015 10.48am

In reality of course most people don't seem to vote based on their MP, but on their MP's party.

Most people?? I'd say more like 99.9% of voters go for the party rather than the person.

I'm lucky in my constituency that the party I vote for has a decent candidate whereas the opposition candidate is an idiot - but even if roles were reversed, my vote would still be based on the party.

That's the reality - if Kylie Minogue was the Labour candidate, even if she offered to let me smash her back doors in, she wouldn't get my vote


 

404 Signature Not Found
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 May 15 1.18pm

Quote masonic_palace at 07 May 2015 1.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 May 2015 10.48am

In reality of course most people don't seem to vote based on their MP, but on their MP's party.

Most people?? I'd say more like 99.9% of voters go for the party rather than the person.

I'm lucky in my constituency that the party I vote for has a decent candidate whereas the opposition candidate is an idiot - but even if roles were reversed, my vote would still be based on the party.

That's the reality - if Kylie Minogue was the Labour candidate, even if she offered to let me smash her back doors in, she wouldn't get my vote


That's dedication. I'm voting Green as I got a blowie from a Green party campaigner once. I'd even go UKIP for a Brown candidate...


 

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
legaleagle Flag 07 May 15 1.22pm

Quote nickgusset at 06 May 2015 8.22pm


UKIP lost their deposits in their first GE.
If you had the intellectual capacity to digest what I wrote, you would have seen that I said labour are the lesser of 2 evils.
If a left wing SNP form part of a UK government, how would the left have lost?


Beware nationalists who may have worn "left" clothing for political reasons for some years now, so as to better outflank and see off Labour in Scotland....but toady up even now to Mr Murdoch at the same time. Not sure how "anti austerity" an independent Scotland SNP government would be in reality...

Edited by legaleagle (07 May 2015 1.25pm)

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
ghosteagle Flag 07 May 15 2.30pm Send a Private Message to ghosteagle Add ghosteagle as a friend

Quote masonic_palace at 07 May 2015 1.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 May 2015 10.48am

In reality of course most people don't seem to vote based on their MP, but on their MP's party.

Most people?? I'd say more like 99.9% of voters go for the party rather than the person.

I'm lucky in my constituency that the party I vote for has a decent candidate whereas the opposition candidate is an idiot - but even if roles were reversed, my vote would still be based on the party.

That's the reality - if Kylie Minogue was the Labour candidate, even if she offered to let me smash her back doors in, she wouldn't get my vote


That is the definition of madness. Bonkers.

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
npn Flag Crowborough 07 May 15 2.38pm Send a Private Message to npn Add npn as a friend

Quote ghosteagle at 07 May 2015 2.30pm

Quote masonic_palace at 07 May 2015 1.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 May 2015 10.48am

In reality of course most people don't seem to vote based on their MP, but on their MP's party.

Most people?? I'd say more like 99.9% of voters go for the party rather than the person.

I'm lucky in my constituency that the party I vote for has a decent candidate whereas the opposition candidate is an idiot - but even if roles were reversed, my vote would still be based on the party.

That's the reality - if Kylie Minogue was the Labour candidate, even if she offered to let me smash her back doors in, she wouldn't get my vote


That is the definition of madness. Bonkers.


True.
The correct answer is, of course, I'd promise to vote for her, smash in those back doors, then vote for someone else

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
ghosteagle Flag 07 May 15 3.05pm Send a Private Message to ghosteagle Add ghosteagle as a friend

Quote npn at 07 May 2015 2.38pm

Quote ghosteagle at 07 May 2015 2.30pm

Quote masonic_palace at 07 May 2015 1.08pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 May 2015 10.48am

In reality of course most people don't seem to vote based on their MP, but on their MP's party.

Most people?? I'd say more like 99.9% of voters go for the party rather than the person.

I'm lucky in my constituency that the party I vote for has a decent candidate whereas the opposition candidate is an idiot - but even if roles were reversed, my vote would still be based on the party.

That's the reality - if Kylie Minogue was the Labour candidate, even if she offered to let me smash her back doors in, she wouldn't get my vote


That is the definition of madness. Bonkers.


True.
The correct answer is, of course, I'd promise to vote for her, smash in those back doors, then vote for someone else

I'd vote for Jeffery Archer if Mrs Minogue was to offer her affections in return. Forget politics, this is serious!

 
Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 5 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Question for the lefties