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Dave Whelan

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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Nov 14 4.21pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Japanese people think "Jap" is racist .

Do they ? For what reason ? To my mind "Jap" is just a shortened form of Japanese. Enlighten me, is there some deep-seated historical or other reason why "Jap" is considered racist ?

Incidently do Americans find "Yank" racist ? I've heard Italians referred to as "Itais" - Is this also racist ?


 
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.21pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Quote Seth at 21 Nov 2014 4.07pm

Quote Ian J at 21 Nov 2014 3.59pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 3.38pm

Whelan saying chink in a generic context- where it's not specifically aimed at anyone person- and I think that is different. Had he said Ken Hom is a chink then that would be offensive.


Whelan was saying that he didn't think that the word "chink" was offensive which means that his usage wasn't racist

I used to be a regular on a forum dealing with a lot of Japanese equipment and most people referred to the Japanese as Japs which is a word that they find offensive but as the word was used in all innocence as the users were unaware of it's significance it was also not racist

Unfortunately for Whelan, and the people on the forum you mention, it's not up to them whether a word is racist or not - it's up to the people the word refers to. Chinese people think "chink" is racist, just like Asians think "p*ki" is racist, Japanese people think "Jap" is racist and black people think "n****r" is racist. Therefore they are racist and ignorance of that fact is not a valid defence.


Can't disagree but I do notice that the papers have gone for rent-a-quote organisations to find people to assert that Whelan was being racist. I do feel uncomfortable how many organisations only exist due to racism and therefore have a vested interest in perpetuating endless discussions about it.


By this logic nurses want people to be ill and injured to keep their jobs, anti-slavery campaigners actually want more slavery and my friend who runs an anti-FGM organisation wants more girls to have their genitals cut off.

Edited by Seth (21 Nov 2014 5.27pm)

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
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Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 21 Nov 14 4.24pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

Quote Seth at 21 Nov 2014 4.07pm

Quote Ian J at 21 Nov 2014 3.59pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 3.38pm

Whelan saying chink in a generic context- where it's not specifically aimed at anyone person- and I think that is different. Had he said Ken Hom is a chink then that would be offensive.


Whelan was saying that he didn't think that the word "chink" was offensive which means that his usage wasn't racist

I used to be a regular on a forum dealing with a lot of Japanese equipment and most people referred to the Japanese as Japs which is a word that they find offensive but as the word was used in all innocence as the users were unaware of it's significance it was also not racist

Unfortunately for Whelan, and the people on the forum you mention, it's not up to them whether a word is racist or not - it's up to the people the word refers to. Chinese people think "chink" is racist, just like Asians think "p*ki" is racist, Japanese people think "Jap" is racist and black people think "n****r" is racist. Therefore they are racist and ignorance of that fact is not a valid defence.


Actually it is, providing it is of course genuine. How can someone be labelled a racist if they use a term that they don't know is offensive. I go back to oneof my earlier posts, words are not inherently racist it's the context in which they are used.

e.g. If I said I'd kill my daughter if she wanted to marry an afro carribean by your logic that's ok because I have used the correct term.

If I say I have no problem with my daughter marrying a sambo then I am a racist.

I am not saying it's ok to use the language but that doesn't mean someone has to be strung up when they do get it wrong.

Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (21 Nov 2014 4.26pm)

 

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Pawson Palace Flag Croydon 21 Nov 14 4.27pm Send a Private Message to Pawson Palace Add Pawson Palace as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 21 Nov 2014 4.24pm

Quote Seth at 21 Nov 2014 4.07pm

Quote Ian J at 21 Nov 2014 3.59pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 3.38pm

Whelan saying chink in a generic context- where it's not specifically aimed at anyone person- and I think that is different. Had he said Ken Hom is a chink then that would be offensive.


Whelan was saying that he didn't think that the word "chink" was offensive which means that his usage wasn't racist

I used to be a regular on a forum dealing with a lot of Japanese equipment and most people referred to the Japanese as Japs which is a word that they find offensive but as the word was used in all innocence as the users were unaware of it's significance it was also not racist

Unfortunately for Whelan, and the people on the forum you mention, it's not up to them whether a word is racist or not - it's up to the people the word refers to. Chinese people think "chink" is racist, just like Asians think "p*ki" is racist, Japanese people think "Jap" is racist and black people think "n****r" is racist. Therefore they are racist and ignorance of that fact is not a valid defence.


Actually it is, providing it is of course genuine. How can someone be labelled a racist if they use a term that they don't know is offensive. I go back to oneof my earlier posts, words are not inherently racist it's the context in which they are used.

e.g. If I said I'd kill my daughter if she wanted to marry an afro carribean that's ok because I have used the correct term.

If I say I have no problem with my daughter marrying a sambo then I am a racist.

I am not saying it's ok to use the language but that doesn't mean someone has to be strung up when they do get it wrong.

Like the recent case with Top Gear....who here honestly knew Slope was supposed to be a derogatory comment for an Asian person?

 

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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.27pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 4.12pm

He wasn't using chink at anyone, he said the word chink in a broader context in conversation. Are we going to remove any word that someone finds offensive from our vocabulary? Where will it stop?

As for the Jew comment, he said they love money, English people love money, we all love money. How is that bad? He hasn't singled anyone out!

Well by what you're saying- you should go and report them for being racist because you should find that offensive on my behalf. That is no different to what Whelan has said, so if you find him racist you find them racist there is no distinction.

As for saying minorities can't be racist that's beyond ironic. Being racist is mistreating people on basis of their colour or creed. So to then say anyone who isn't white can't be racist is treating white people differently which is surely racist in itself as everyone is not being treated the same.


Just like we don't say "n***r" or "p**i" any more, yes, we should remove "chink" from our vocabulary. It will stop when we don't use racist language any more.

He has singled Jews out. He said "Jewish people chase money more than everybody else." Are you saying that's not prejudiced against Jews?

I didn't say I found it offensive. I asked if you did and suggested you do something about it if you did. If you don't I can't see what you're banging on about it for.

I didn't say minorities can't be racist, if you read my post it's clear I didn't say that.

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.29pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 21 Nov 2014 4.14pm

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Quote Seth at 21 Nov 2014 4.07pm

Quote Ian J at 21 Nov 2014 3.59pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 3.38pm

Whelan saying chink in a generic context- where it's not specifically aimed at anyone person- and I think that is different. Had he said Ken Hom is a chink then that would be offensive.


Whelan was saying that he didn't think that the word "chink" was offensive which means that his usage wasn't racist

I used to be a regular on a forum dealing with a lot of Japanese equipment and most people referred to the Japanese as Japs which is a word that they find offensive but as the word was used in all innocence as the users were unaware of it's significance it was also not racist

Unfortunately for Whelan, and the people on the forum you mention, it's not up to them whether a word is racist or not - it's up to the people the word refers to. Chinese people think "chink" is racist, just like Asians think "p*ki" is racist, Japanese people think "Jap" is racist and black people think "n****r" is racist. Therefore they are racist and ignorance of that fact is not a valid defence.


Can't disagree but I do notice that the papers have gone for rent-a-quote organisations to find people to assert that Whelan was being racist. I do feel uncomfortable how many organisations only exist due to racism and therefore have a vested interest in perpetuating endless discussions about it.


So we are told what is offensive by those who are supposedly offended. Can anyone see the problem with this ?
It is a purely self serving vehicle. It allows anyone to behave how they like and then claim racism or prejudice if anyone objects. A more absurd state of affairs I can't imagine.


In my view it's only the people who the remarks or behaviour is aimed at that can say how they feel about it. How else are we to decide what is offensive except by listening to the people who are offended?

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.30pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Willo at 21 Nov 2014 4.21pm

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Japanese people think "Jap" is racist .

Do they ? For what reason ? To my mind "Jap" is just a shortened form of Japanese. Enlighten me, is there some deep-seated historical or other reason why "Jap" is considered racist ?

Incidently do Americans find "Yank" racist ? I've heard Italians referred to as "Itais" - Is this also racist ?

"P*ki" is a shortened form of "pakistani". Does that mean it's not racist?

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.33pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 21 Nov 2014 4.24pm

Quote Seth at 21 Nov 2014 4.07pm

Quote Ian J at 21 Nov 2014 3.59pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 3.38pm

Whelan saying chink in a generic context- where it's not specifically aimed at anyone person- and I think that is different. Had he said Ken Hom is a chink then that would be offensive.


Whelan was saying that he didn't think that the word "chink" was offensive which means that his usage wasn't racist

I used to be a regular on a forum dealing with a lot of Japanese equipment and most people referred to the Japanese as Japs which is a word that they find offensive but as the word was used in all innocence as the users were unaware of it's significance it was also not racist

Unfortunately for Whelan, and the people on the forum you mention, it's not up to them whether a word is racist or not - it's up to the people the word refers to. Chinese people think "chink" is racist, just like Asians think "p*ki" is racist, Japanese people think "Jap" is racist and black people think "n****r" is racist. Therefore they are racist and ignorance of that fact is not a valid defence.


Actually it is, providing it is of course genuine. How can someone be labelled a racist if they use a term that they don't know is offensive. I go back to oneof my earlier posts, words are not inherently racist it's the context in which they are used.

e.g. If I said I'd kill my daughter if she wanted to marry an afro carribean by your logic that's ok because I have used the correct term.

If I say I have no problem with my daughter marrying a sambo then I am a racist.

I am not saying it's ok to use the language but that doesn't mean someone has to be strung up when they do get it wrong.


Edited by Y Ddraig Goch (21 Nov 2014 4.26pm)

I'm not saying anyone should be strung up and I do think people should be educated about language and we should be understanding if people genuinely don't know what they're saying is offensive. But anyone who seriously thinks it's ok to use the word "sambo", "p*ki" or "n****r" in this day and age should be called out for it.

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.34pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Pawson Palace at 21 Nov 2014 4.27pm

Like the recent case with Top Gear....who here honestly knew Slope was supposed to be a derogatory comment for an Asian person?


I didn't know that either, but the Top Gear presenters did (that's why they used it - to generate more publicity for themselves) and now I do know I won't use it (not that I did anyway, but you get what I mean).

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Midlands Eagle Flag 21 Nov 14 4.38pm Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Quote Willo at 21 Nov 2014 4.21pm

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Japanese people think "Jap" is racist .

Do they ? For what reason ? To my mind "Jap" is just a shortened form of Japanese. Enlighten me, is there some deep-seated historical or other reason why "Jap" is considered racist ?

[Link]


 
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Seth Flag On a pale blue dot 21 Nov 14 4.40pm Send a Private Message to Seth Add Seth as a friend

Quote Ian J at 21 Nov 2014 4.38pm

Quote Willo at 21 Nov 2014 4.21pm

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Japanese people think "Jap" is racist .

Do they ? For what reason ? To my mind "Jap" is just a shortened form of Japanese. Enlighten me, is there some deep-seated historical or other reason why "Jap" is considered racist ?

[Link]



In the United States, the word 'Jap' was sometimes used as a contraction of 'Japanese' before WWII. It wasn't considered derogatory.

That's why willo didn't know it was derogatory. His cultural awareness was halted at the turn of the 20th century

 

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Willo Flag South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Nov 14 4.43pm Send a Private Message to Willo Add Willo as a friend

Quote Seth at 21 Nov 2014 4.30pm

Quote Willo at 21 Nov 2014 4.21pm

Quote Mapletree at 21 Nov 2014 4.10pm

Japanese people think "Jap" is racist .

Do they ? For what reason ? To my mind "Jap" is just a shortened form of Japanese. Enlighten me, is there some deep-seated historical or other reason why "Jap" is considered racist ?

Incidently do Americans find "Yank" racist ? I've heard Italians referred to as "Itais" - Is this also racist ?

"P*ki" is a shortened form of "pakistani". Does that mean it's not racist?

It is in this modern day and age - Yes it's an abbreviation of "pakistani" but it is used in a derogatory way hence the racism aspect. Suppose it is all down to context.In itself, such an abbreviation doesn't appear to have offensive conotations.

Ive never heard about "Jap" being considered racist nor used in a derogatory manner in fact I was taking to a chap who was in the Korean War in 1953 and he referred to the "Japs" but not in derogatory terms.


Edited by Willo (21 Nov 2014 4.47pm)

 
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