You are quite possibly correct and maybe my comparison was a bit leftfield.

but my point really was that considering the owners have been subsidising losses of lets say an average of £6m a season from their own pockets since they've taken over then what right do we as fans have to demand they spend more money during their one chance to make/save some money for the club.

In reality we have f*** all right...yes we may spend hundreds, maybe thousands a year supporting the team...but to put it into perspective they spend millions every season just to keep our heads above water.

I understand Syd is annoyed at the lack of signings thusfar this January...we would all love decent signings...but in reality, say we spend £5m this window would it really make that much of a difference to our chances of staying up? To really tip the scales in our favour over our rivals we would have to spend another 15m on the team...something I really can't see happening whether I want it to or not.

‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

eventually the supporters in this country will wake up to the fact that "their" club isn't really theirs at all and then they will demand a "50 plus one" type rule of club ownership similar to the Bundesliga - to get to that point there will have to be a big crash (eg several top clubs folding) and/or a great loss of interest from the next generations, both of which are very possible over the next twenty years or so

we are currently in a transition time during which the new owners of the top football clubs treat what they own as businesses but still the fans don't act like true customers or consumers and go elsewhere if the "product" doesn't give them "value for money"

the supporters coming through the gate have progressively become less important compared to the TV viewers/gamblers/merchandise buyers not only in the UK/Europe but also in the Far East and other areas of the world - it can be argued these are the new customers the owners are more interested in

the next generation of fans in this country won't be so "loyal" (or some might say "mugs" from a consumer perspective)

CPFC2010 are a throwback to a different era of local businessmen made good and they at least seem (from what can be seen) to like and understand football and the fans' passion and they seem to care about Palace and the survival of the club

the reality is no club can compete and survive in the PL right now unless they have billionaire backing and the billionaire backing for clubs is not going to be for the long-term - its short termism with profit motive foremost and hence look at the vulnerability of clubs like Cardiff Hull and Southampton who don't have a global brand

far better to have relegation again this season than put the club at risk again - we can hold our heads high if we continue to make a fight of it and at least the Linekers and Savages and Hansens are being denied the chance to gloat every week as they thought they would at the start of the season

That isn't true for two reasons. Firstly the club isn't loss making every year as it made a profit last year and will probably do so again this year.

Secondly, as you say the supporters may spend thousands a year supporting the team which is money that they will never see again whilst the directors don't actually spend anything as they invest their money in the club.

Unlike the supporters the directors only lend the money to the club and hope one day that it will be repaid (possibly with interest) The first thing that they did when providing the loan capital was to secure their investments by way of four individual charges against the assets of the company so that if anything where to happen they would have first dibs on the assets and would recover their investments that way.

Secondly the directors are now sitting on a huge potential profit as the company is worth way more than when they bought it due partly to the acquisition of Selhurst Park at the same time and partly to the success of the team on the field

Our chairmen can't win.

I truly hope they never get to see your post. It would suck the the energy and life out of genuine intent to see their motivations brought into question or seen cynically like you have done.

It's fine to question but all of the business practices you have mentioned are completely necessary to act as owners of the club. Owning our ground rather than renting it is a no brainer quite frankly....Cor blimey.

When these owners took over we were a badly struggling club hotly tipped to drop a division....Hardly a money making prospect....Many had turned us down.

These chairmen didn't invest massively but instead provided capital to allow the club to stay in the division on a competitive level....We spent mid table wages on wages.....They did not invest enough money to realistically expect a Premiership promotion....That was very unexpected.

That being the case that our owners didn't do a Cardiff or Hull and invest massively in loss making risks to gain promotion means that the future for Palace was most likely to mean a three to five million loss every year.

For every Hull there are plenty more Birminghams/ Portsmouths/Blackburns.....Investment indeed....Stupid business venture more like....There are far more sensible investments our there.

They knew this was the cost of their investment to keep Palace up and in the championship....With a small chance of glory...But that looked miles away when they came in.

They did what they did out of love.....Not sensible business practice....They have....And we have got lucky.

Edited by Stirlingsays (18 Jan 2014 9.18am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The days when having a background in finance meant that your views within those matters meant a significant amount.... have rather taken a knock.

Still, referring to you post I'm would counter what you imply as cynical business practice as pure common sense. Not looking for the lowest price reduces the amount of financial outlay that these investors were prepared to risk in the first place.

Regardless of the price they got for this club they were spending and had to spend millions just to keep us afloat in the division.....With no realistic future saying that the investment was going to pay off.

Also you can't say that they wouldn't have blinked first with Lloyds, it's not knowable. They left it late but we just don't know. Public statements aren't necessarily to be taken as gospel when you know others are gauging your business intentions...That's obvious....The last minute phone call could have happened we will never know.

You state that bank rolling Jordan would have been altruistic....Well yes it certainly would have. They would have got to provide all the cash and have no say in how it was spent. These owners were prepared to lose money keeping Palace in business but not backing someone who would freeze them out or loose their cash being rash.

These owners never wanted to get involved in the first place and their actions suggested that. They only got involved when the club looked like going out of business.

Backing Crystal Palace FC was not a sensible business investment....There were probably many better ones.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

You know this information - how?

Your attitude really just smacks of someone who is envious of our owners and their wealth. You're constantly telling half truths and accusing the owners of having some hidden agenda.