Boris is toast.

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Boris is toast.

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Stirlingsays 08 Feb 22 10.05am
Originally posted by silvertop Yes, this thread was migrating into an interesting debate that has little to do with the OP. Again. Meanwhile, that attack on Starmer was something of a storm in a teacup; but it is the fact that it was OBVIOUSLY incited by the PM that is significant. He denies that it was down to him! How? Not only that, but he said he is far too busy to apologise. Thus a neat combination of scurrilous, spineless and unscrupulous. You may love the guy, you may not want harm to your party or government, but surely this is indefensible and beyond the pale? He's supposed to be the PM, leading from the front. What message does this send to the people and the world? How do you not cringe that he has sought to appeal to the absolute lowest base? I think what Johnson said about Starmer on Saville was unfortunate. Apologising though....That probably weakens him further. The left frequently stir their base up against Tories you don't see them being all morally self reflective about it. Their base loves it. The stuff said about Thatcher makes what Johnson said so milk toast in comparison....but now it matters? Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Feb 2022 10.07am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Feb 22 10.05am

Originally posted by silvertop

Yes, this thread was migrating into an interesting debate that has little to do with the OP.

Again.

Meanwhile, that attack on Starmer was something of a storm in a teacup; but it is the fact that it was OBVIOUSLY incited by the PM that is significant.

He denies that it was down to him! How?

Not only that, but he said he is far too busy to apologise.

Thus a neat combination of scurrilous, spineless and unscrupulous.

You may love the guy, you may not want harm to your party or government, but surely this is indefensible and beyond the pale?

He's supposed to be the PM, leading from the front. What message does this send to the people and the world? How do you not cringe that he has sought to appeal to the absolute lowest base?

I think what Johnson said about Starmer on Saville was unfortunate.

Apologising though....That probably weakens him further.

The left frequently stir their base up against Tories you don't see them being all morally self reflective about it. Their base loves it. The stuff said about Thatcher makes what Johnson said so milk toast in comparison....but now it matters?

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Feb 2022 10.07am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Feb 22 11.31am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think what Johnson said about Starmer on Saville was unfortunate. Apologising though....That probably weakens him further. The left frequently stir their base up against Tories you don't see them being all morally self reflective about it. Their base loves it. The stuff said about Thatcher makes what Johnson said so milk toast in comparison....but now it matters? Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Feb 2022 10.07am) Whataboutism is irrelevant. What is relevant is how, and when, the Tory MPs react and what they are getting from their constituents. Johnson has sent most of the MPs home this week, prior to a 10-day recess, in the hope he can weather the storm and re-establish control. The next couple of days could be interesting. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 Feb 22 11.31am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think what Johnson said about Starmer on Saville was unfortunate.

Apologising though....That probably weakens him further.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Feb 2022 10.07am)

Whataboutism is irrelevant.

What is relevant is how, and when, the Tory MPs react and what they are getting from their constituents.

Johnson has sent most of the MPs home this week, prior to a 10-day recess, in the hope he can weather the storm and re-establish control. The next couple of days could be interesting.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Feb 22 11.33am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The reaction to this looks as though it could be the "coup de grâce" for Johnson. I had not heard of this MP, but her words cut to the core:- "Labour’s Rosena Allin-Khan told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the prime minister “should not be looking in the dark corners of he internet for lies to smear his opponents, but standing up for a better public discourse based on fact, not fiction”. In a fierce attack on Boris Johnson, the shadow minster for mental health called on the PM to come to Parliament “and apologise unreservedly for his smears”. “Words have consequences,” she said, echoing many of her Labour colleagues on Tuesday morning. “We need to have responsible leaders who fight fake news and conspiracy theories - not promote them.” “This is straight out of the Trumpian playbook. Boris Johnson has come in to public office to seize power and smear any person, or group, who stands in his way. “There is no barrel he won’t scrape.”" Comedy hour on the HOL.
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Hrolf The Ganger

08 Feb 22 11.33am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The reaction to this looks as though it could be the "coup de grâce" for Johnson. I had not heard of this MP, but her words cut to the core:-

"Labour’s Rosena Allin-Khan told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the prime minister “should not be looking in the dark corners of he internet for lies to smear his opponents, but standing up for a better public discourse based on fact, not fiction”.

In a fierce attack on Boris Johnson, the shadow minster for mental health called on the PM to come to Parliament “and apologise unreservedly for his smears”.

“Words have consequences,” she said, echoing many of her Labour colleagues on Tuesday morning.

“We need to have responsible leaders who fight fake news and conspiracy theories - not promote them.”

“This is straight out of the Trumpian playbook. Boris Johnson has come in to public office to seize power and smear any person, or group, who stands in his way.

“There is no barrel he won’t scrape.”"

Comedy hour on the HOL.

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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Feb 22 11.40am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Any potential party with this as part of its purpose is going to run into trouble. Not with the Electoral Commission itself but with the obligations placed upon it. This is how the "Great Replacement Theory" is described by "The Counter Extremism Project":- [Link] This is the page from the Electoral Commission's site dealing with how applications are made and assessed:- [Link] This extract is pertinent:- "Registration is not automatic. The Commission assesses whether the party’s application and identity marks meet the criteria set out in electoral law, as well as legal obligations under equality laws" So, like everything else, a new political party must be lawful, which the attitudes espoused by The Great Replacement Theory do not appear to be. Theory? So do tell us all how you think this obvious eventuality will be reversed.
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Hrolf The Ganger

08 Feb 22 11.40am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Any potential party with this as part of its purpose is going to run into trouble. Not with the Electoral Commission itself but with the obligations placed upon it. This is how the "Great Replacement Theory" is described by "The Counter Extremism Project":-

[Link]

This is the page from the Electoral Commission's site dealing with how applications are made and assessed:-

[Link]

This extract is pertinent:-

"Registration is not automatic. The Commission assesses whether the party’s application and identity marks meet the criteria set out in electoral law, as well as legal obligations under equality laws"

So, like everything else, a new political party must be lawful, which the attitudes espoused by The Great Replacement Theory do not appear to be.

Theory?

So do tell us all how you think this obvious eventuality will be reversed.

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BlueJay UK 08 Feb 22 11.46am
Much like the multiple instances of people harassing Chris Whitty, this is very unfortunate, especially when it is stoked by the man at the top. I see this as being Boris' last roll of the dice really. Seeing if enough people in his party care enough to do anything about his conduct . If they don't, I suppose we'll drift more towards an 'anything goes' US style politics. All that ultimately achieves though is the voters voice being more and more dialed down no matter who's in power.
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BlueJay

UK 08 Feb 22 11.46am

Much like the multiple instances of people harassing Chris Whitty, this is very unfortunate, especially when it is stoked by the man at the top.

I see this as being Boris' last roll of the dice really. Seeing if enough people in his party care enough to do anything about his conduct . If they don't, I suppose we'll drift more towards an 'anything goes' US style politics. All that ultimately achieves though is the voters voice being more and more dialed down no matter who's in power.

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The Dolphin 08 Feb 22 11.50am
Boris is to blame for everything isn't he! The facts are that Starmer was in charge when Saville could have been prosecuted and he didn't do anything. He says that everything that happens in No 10 is down to Boris because he is in charge and so surely the same applies to him - probably not in his eyes of course! Boris probably should not have done it in Parliament but he told the truth and Starmer doesn't like it - well stuff him! Many people were guilty where Saville was concerned and Starmer is not at the top of the list and he could have done something but he didn't and got a Knighthood as well. Saville not prosecuted in 2009 when KS was in charge - KS leaves in 2011 and gets Knighthood in 2014 - you do the maths! More should have been made of this before in my opinion - heads of businesses need to take responsibility and the CPS is no different. Suck it up Starmer! Edited by The Dolphin (08 Feb 2022 11.50am)
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The Dolphin

08 Feb 22 11.50am

Boris is to blame for everything isn't he!
The facts are that Starmer was in charge when Saville could have been prosecuted and he didn't do anything.
He says that everything that happens in No 10 is down to Boris because he is in charge and so surely the same applies to him - probably not in his eyes of course!
Boris probably should not have done it in Parliament but he told the truth and Starmer doesn't like it - well stuff him!
Many people were guilty where Saville was concerned and Starmer is not at the top of the list and he could have done something but he didn't and got a Knighthood as well.
Saville not prosecuted in 2009 when KS was in charge - KS leaves in 2011 and gets Knighthood in 2014 - you do the maths!
More should have been made of this before in my opinion - heads of businesses need to take responsibility and the CPS is no different.
Suck it up Starmer!

Edited by The Dolphin (08 Feb 2022 11.50am)

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Stirlingsays 08 Feb 22 11.52am
Originally posted by BlueJay Much like the multiple instances of people harassing Chris Whitty, this is very unfortunate, especially when it is stoked by the man at the top. I see this as being Boris' last roll of the dice really. Seeing if enough people in his party care enough to do anything about his conduct . If they don't, I suppose we'll drift more towards an 'anything goes' US style politics. All that ultimately achieves though is the voters voice being more and more dialed down no matter who's in power. As I have been telling you, that is inevitable. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Feb 22 11.52am

Originally posted by BlueJay

Much like the multiple instances of people harassing Chris Whitty, this is very unfortunate, especially when it is stoked by the man at the top.

I see this as being Boris' last roll of the dice really. Seeing if enough people in his party care enough to do anything about his conduct . If they don't, I suppose we'll drift more towards an 'anything goes' US style politics. All that ultimately achieves though is the voters voice being more and more dialed down no matter who's in power.

As I have been telling you, that is inevitable.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay UK 08 Feb 22 11.53am
Originally posted by silvertop He's supposed to be the PM, leading from the front. What message does this send to the people and the world? How do you not cringe that he has sought to appeal to the absolute lowest base? It's down to the party to decide at this point. It's in part, likely an intentional distraction from partygate, a calculated gamble that as bad as this looks, it's still less offensive to the average voter than the prior abhorrent double standard. I expect that the next week or two is what matters. If there are enough letters put in, Boris is probably toast, if not I fail to see what future behaviour could occur that would result in him going because it's already bottom of the barrel stuff. As we see stateside (and in countries like Russia or China), having no standard, is it itself a strength and show of power if no-one else around you cares or dares enough to pull you up on it.
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BlueJay

UK 08 Feb 22 11.53am

Originally posted by silvertop

He's supposed to be the PM, leading from the front. What message does this send to the people and the world? How do you not cringe that he has sought to appeal to the absolute lowest base?

It's down to the party to decide at this point. It's in part, likely an intentional distraction from partygate, a calculated gamble that as bad as this looks, it's still less offensive to the average voter than the prior abhorrent double standard.

I expect that the next week or two is what matters. If there are enough letters put in, Boris is probably toast, if not I fail to see what future behaviour could occur that would result in him going because it's already bottom of the barrel stuff.

As we see stateside (and in countries like Russia or China), having no standard, is it itself a strength and show of power if no-one else around you cares or dares enough to pull you up on it.

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BlueJay UK 08 Feb 22 11.54am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays As I have been telling you, that is inevitable.
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BlueJay

UK 08 Feb 22 11.54am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As I have been telling you, that is inevitable.

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BlueJay UK 08 Feb 22 12.03pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Boris probably should not have done it in Parliament but he told the truth and Starmer doesn't like it - well stuff him! Edited by The Dolphin (08 Feb 2022 11.50am) Boris is clearly only throwing this into the mix to .. well get the reaction that occurred. He's literally using the misery of abused children to stick it to his opponent, rather than speaking from a point of concern or reality. It's a distraction due to the position he finds himself in. With no obvious replacement he's hoping that the party members just hold their noses and go with it. Where these kind of mob situations are either encouraged with a nod and a wink or fobbed off, it just ramps up the likelihood of more of our MPs being murdered. That in turn will have a very significant impact on all of us regardless of our politics. Edited by BlueJay (08 Feb 2022 12.14pm)
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BlueJay

UK 08 Feb 22 12.03pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Boris probably should not have done it in Parliament but he told the truth and Starmer doesn't like it - well stuff him!
Edited by The Dolphin (08 Feb 2022 11.50am)

Boris is clearly only throwing this into the mix to .. well get the reaction that occurred. He's literally using the misery of abused children to stick it to his opponent, rather than speaking from a point of concern or reality.

It's a distraction due to the position he finds himself in. With no obvious replacement he's hoping that the party members just hold their noses and go with it.

Where these kind of mob situations are either encouraged with a nod and a wink or fobbed off, it just ramps up the likelihood of more of our MPs being murdered. That in turn will have a very significant impact on all of us regardless of our politics.

Edited by BlueJay (08 Feb 2022 12.14pm)

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berlinpalace berlin 08 Feb 22 12.22pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Boris is to blame for everything isn't he! The facts are that Starmer was in charge when Saville could have been prosecuted and he didn't do anything. He says that everything that happens in No 10 is down to Boris because he is in charge and so surely the same applies to him - probably not in his eyes of course! Boris probably should not have done it in Parliament but he told the truth and Starmer doesn't like it - well stuff him! Many people were guilty where Saville was concerned and Starmer is not at the top of the list and he could have done something but he didn't and got a Knighthood as well. Saville not prosecuted in 2009 when KS was in charge - KS leaves in 2011 and gets Knighthood in 2014 - you do the maths! More should have been made of this before in my opinion - heads of businesses need to take responsibility and the CPS is no different. Suck it up Starmer! Edited by The Dolphin (08 Feb 2022 11.50am) ‘Richard Scorer, a lawyer who represented victims of Savile, told the BBC that the prime minister's claim was "fundamentally baseless". He said the victims he had spoken to were "disgusted by Mr Johnson's comments" and called on the prime minister to withdraw them and apologise.’ Who should we believe? The actual victims of Saville or some halfwit far-right troll? Hmmm. I only check on this page occasionally but you guys never fail to disappoint.
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berlinpalace

berlin 08 Feb 22 12.22pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Edited by The Dolphin (08 Feb 2022 11.50am)

‘Richard Scorer, a lawyer who represented victims of Savile, told the BBC that the prime minister's claim was "fundamentally baseless".
He said the victims he had spoken to were "disgusted by Mr Johnson's comments" and called on the prime minister to withdraw them and apologise.’
Who should we believe? The actual victims of Saville or some halfwit far-right troll? Hmmm. I only check on this page occasionally but you guys never fail to disappoint.

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Stirlingsays 08 Feb 22 12.28pm
Originally posted by berlinpalace ‘Richard Scorer, a lawyer who represented victims of Savile, told the BBC that the prime minister's claim was "fundamentally baseless". He said the victims he had spoken to were "disgusted by Mr Johnson's comments" and called on the prime minister to withdraw them and apologise.’ Who should we believe? The actual victims of Saville or some halfwit far-right troll? Hmmm. I only check on this page occasionally but you guys never fail to disappoint. So he spoke to all the victims did he. You can believe lawyers I suppose....I couldn't possibly comment. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Feb 22 12.28pm

Originally posted by berlinpalace

So he spoke to all the victims did he.

You can believe lawyers I suppose....I couldn't possibly comment.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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