Another black man shot by police in USA

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Another black man shot by police in USA

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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Dec 17 4.16pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston You missed out the step between being warned about moving his hands and then being told to crawl before getting shot. He was doing his best to comply with contradictory and, frankly, weird, instructions from the cops. Why didn't one of them go over and cuff him when he was face down with his hands behind his back? Why make him crawl to you when you can walk to him? This was just crazy. But then, just look at the guy who did the shooting... Entirely this. How poor is the training of the officers that they can't arrest a single, unarmed man, prone and begging for his life, who clearly isn't armed. Its almost as if they were constructing an excuse to shoot him. The whole exercise seemed more about humiliating and dominating the guy than arresting him. Instead of rightly castigating the police, and holding them accountable, for completely f**king up and killing a guy; the system has served to stoop to a new low. What happens now, if you're pulled over by a cop, should you shoot first, and claim you were 'in fear for your life' having seen incidents where innocent people are killed by cops like this? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 11 Dec 17 4.16pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

You missed out the step between being warned about moving his hands and then being told to crawl before getting shot. He was doing his best to comply with contradictory and, frankly, weird, instructions from the cops.

Why didn't one of them go over and cuff him when he was face down with his hands behind his back? Why make him crawl to you when you can walk to him? This was just crazy.

But then, just look at the guy who did the shooting...

Entirely this. How poor is the training of the officers that they can't arrest a single, unarmed man, prone and begging for his life, who clearly isn't armed.

Its almost as if they were constructing an excuse to shoot him. The whole exercise seemed more about humiliating and dominating the guy than arresting him.

Instead of rightly castigating the police, and holding them accountable, for completely f**king up and killing a guy; the system has served to stoop to a new low.

What happens now, if you're pulled over by a cop, should you shoot first, and claim you were 'in fear for your life' having seen incidents where innocent people are killed by cops like this?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Ray in Houston Houston 11 Dec 17 4.16pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 That's absurd; because as you state, and untrained person wouldn't be in a position to respond to police summons. Its worth noting, that had that happened in Afghanistan or Iraq, they'd have been tried and likely convicted. Imagine if this was a medical malpractice lawsuit because a patient died during routine surgery. Would the test for the doctor's performance be what a doctor should do, or what I would do? We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 11 Dec 17 4.16pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

That's absurd; because as you state, and untrained person wouldn't be in a position to respond to police summons.

Its worth noting, that had that happened in Afghanistan or Iraq, they'd have been tried and likely convicted.

Imagine if this was a medical malpractice lawsuit because a patient died during routine surgery. Would the test for the doctor's performance be what a doctor should do, or what I would do?

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 11 Dec 17 4.22pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Entirely this. How poor is the training of the officers that they can't arrest a single, unarmed man, prone and begging for his life, who clearly isn't armed. Its almost as if they were constructing an excuse to shoot him. The whole exercise seemed more about humiliating and dominating the guy than arresting him. Instead of rightly castigating the police, and holding them accountable, for completely fking up and killing a guy; the system has served to stoop to a new low. What happens now, if you're pulled over by a cop, should you shoot first, and claim you were 'in fear for your life' having seen incidents where innocent people are killed by cops like this? The scary thing is that this is where it goes. As it stands, the public are the ones who have to remain calm and deescalate tension during interactions with law enforcement, because their lives depend on it. It has been shown over and over again that even complete, passive compliance cannot save you if the cop is fixated on you being some kind of threat. I have been in the same circumstance in which Philando Castile was shot. Worse, actually, as I was doing over 50mph in a 35mph zone (by mistake, thinking I was on a freeway on ramp but I'd actually missed that turn). I did everything the same as Castile, except that I didn't have a gun (and am white). Castile got four bullets, I got let off with a warning. I would've given me a ticket. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just waing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 11 Dec 17 4.22pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Entirely this. How poor is the training of the officers that they can't arrest a single, unarmed man, prone and begging for his life, who clearly isn't armed.

Its almost as if they were constructing an excuse to shoot him. The whole exercise seemed more about humiliating and dominating the guy than arresting him.

Instead of rightly castigating the police, and holding them accountable, for completely f**king up and killing a guy; the system has served to stoop to a new low.

What happens now, if you're pulled over by a cop, should you shoot first, and claim you were 'in fear for your life' having seen incidents where innocent people are killed by cops like this?

The scary thing is that this is where it goes. As it stands, the public are the ones who have to remain calm and deescalate tension during interactions with law enforcement, because their lives depend on it. It has been shown over and over again that even complete, passive compliance cannot save you if the cop is fixated on you being some kind of threat.

I have been in the same circumstance in which Philando Castile was shot. Worse, actually, as I was doing over 50mph in a 35mph zone (by mistake, thinking I was on a freeway on ramp but I'd actually missed that turn). I did everything the same as Castile, except that I didn't have a gun (and am white).

Castile got four bullets, I got let off with a warning. I would've given me a ticket.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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johnfirewall 11 Dec 17 6.22pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston As it turns out, Black Lives Matter has taken up Shaver's cause. [Link] Meanwhile, All Lives Matter is deafeningly silent. [Link] That's ironic considering the latter was deemed to be undermining the cause and that BLM have pushed for reform which could have saved this poor guy but I'm glad they take such a stance.
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johnfirewall

11 Dec 17 6.22pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

As it turns out, Black Lives Matter has taken up Shaver's cause. [Link]

Meanwhile, All Lives Matter is deafeningly silent. [Link]

That's ironic considering the latter was deemed to be undermining the cause and that BLM have pushed for reform which could have saved this poor guy but I'm glad they take such a stance.

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7mins In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.12pm
Originally posted by .TUX. It was murder. End of. [Link] You think it was a premeditated act?
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7mins

In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.12pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

It was murder. End of.

[Link]

You think it was a premeditated act?

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7mins In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.17pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston There is some doubt as to whether Stirling reached for his gun, but the simple truth is that having a gun around makes you more likely to get shot by a significant multiple. Now, a black man getting arrested and in complete compliance can still get shot by cops (Philando Castile being one). But you are correct that a heavily armed citizenry means that cops - who are supposed to "serve and protect" are on such an edge that they will shoot first before even thinking about asking questions. Philando was told not to move after saying he was carrying a gun. Even his fiancée admits he then moved (to get his liciense). So I'm confused where this "complete compliance" comes from.
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7mins

In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.17pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

There is some doubt as to whether Stirling reached for his gun, but the simple truth is that having a gun around makes you more likely to get shot by a significant multiple.

Now, a black man getting arrested and in complete compliance can still get shot by cops (Philando Castile being one). But you are correct that a heavily armed citizenry means that cops - who are supposed to "serve and protect" are on such an edge that they will shoot first before even thinking about asking questions.

Philando was told not to move after saying he was carrying a gun. Even his fiancée admits he then moved (to get his liciense). So I'm confused where this "complete compliance" comes from.

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Ray in Houston Houston 11 Dec 17 7.19pm
Originally posted by 7mins Philando was told not to move after saying he was carrying a gun. Even his fiancée admits he then moved (to get his liciense). So I'm confused where this "complete compliance" comes from. Which deserves four bullets from point blank range? Where was the threat? We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 11 Dec 17 7.19pm

Originally posted by 7mins

Philando was told not to move after saying he was carrying a gun. Even his fiancée admits he then moved (to get his liciense). So I'm confused where this "complete compliance" comes from.

Which deserves four bullets from point blank range? Where was the threat?

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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7mins In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.22pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Don't try to defend the Shaver shooting, the cop in question was out of order and control. That guy posed no threat at all and its a f**king power trip of a guy in uniform with an assault rifle. At no point was that cops life even remotely in danger or threat, either before he fired or during the time he fired. I've merely given the facts, do you deny he was told if he moves his hands he will be shot? He then moves his hands to his waistband and was promptly shot. Is any of the above not true? This awful incident is a symptom of a deeper problem. America has a gun culture.... Cops are nervous... These things will continue to happen.
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7mins

In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.22pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Don't try to defend the Shaver shooting, the cop in question was out of order and control. That guy posed no threat at all and its a f**king power trip of a guy in uniform with an assault rifle.

At no point was that cops life even remotely in danger or threat, either before he fired or during the time he fired.

I've merely given the facts, do you deny he was told if he moves his hands he will be shot?
He then moves his hands to his waistband and was promptly shot.

Is any of the above not true?

This awful incident is a symptom of a deeper problem. America has a gun culture.... Cops are nervous... These things will continue to happen.

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7mins In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.27pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Which deserves four bullets from point blank range? Where was the threat? I've never said there was... I'm pointing out that he didn't offer "complete compliance" Hindsight tells us he was reaching for his license. Do you know what BLM put on twitter after he was shot? They said "another PoC shot by a trigger happy white cop" Do you know the ethnicity of the cop was? Asian.
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7mins

In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.27pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Which deserves four bullets from point blank range? Where was the threat?

I've never said there was... I'm pointing out that he didn't offer "complete compliance"

Hindsight tells us he was reaching for his license.

Do you know what BLM put on twitter after he was shot?

They said "another PoC shot by a trigger happy white cop"

Do you know the ethnicity of the cop was?

Asian.

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7mins In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.30pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Which deserves four bullets from point blank range? Where was the threat? Its easier to discuss this if we stick to the facts... Complete compliance is not true. Like the "hands up, don't shoot" in the Michael Brown case. Facts pls... Not made up stuff to support a agenda
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7mins

In the bush 11 Dec 17 7.30pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Which deserves four bullets from point blank range? Where was the threat?

Its easier to discuss this if we stick to the facts... Complete compliance is not true. Like the "hands up, don't shoot" in the Michael Brown case.

Facts pls... Not made up stuff to support a agenda

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.TUX. 11 Dec 17 8.02pm
Originally posted by 7mins You think it was a premeditated act? Murder doesn't have to be premeditated does it? Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

11 Dec 17 8.02pm

Originally posted by 7mins

You think it was a premeditated act?

Murder doesn't have to be premeditated does it?

Buy Litecoin.

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Ray in Houston Houston 11 Dec 17 8.17pm
Originally posted by 7mins I've never said there was... I'm pointing out that he didn't offer "complete compliance" Hindsight tells us he was reaching for his license. Parsing the event into such minute detail - so as to negate the nature of the overall encounter - is a trick as old as the Rodney King beating (where his every movement was analyzed in such detail so as to suggest he was resisting arrest as opposed to being a man being beaten with sticks, boots and fists). The question I asked is still unanswered: at what point was Castile a threat to the officer? He testified that he never saw the gun... We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 11 Dec 17 8.17pm

Originally posted by 7mins

I've never said there was... I'm pointing out that he didn't offer "complete compliance"

Hindsight tells us he was reaching for his license.

Parsing the event into such minute detail - so as to negate the nature of the overall encounter - is a trick as old as the Rodney King beating (where his every movement was analyzed in such detail so as to suggest he was resisting arrest as opposed to being a man being beaten with sticks, boots and fists).

The question I asked is still unanswered: at what point was Castile a threat to the officer? He testified that he never saw the gun...

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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