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Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 13 Dec 23 1.42pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Standing where she was, in an area covered by an exclusion order.

You can protest about abortion. You can pray silently. You can campaign to ban the issuing of exclusion orders.

What you cannot do is break orders legally obtained and in force.

So is the offence the same if she was holding up a banner. I’m just trying to ascertain whether there is a difference in the crime, even though one would be more evident to an onlooker and potentially more hurtful, whereas silent prayer is in the mind of the thinker.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 1.43pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

That would be my grievance, and what I would suggest this is actually about, not her praying. 'We don't want you disturbing that which we condone, for whatever reason or because it suits our narrative'.

I do take umbrage at that, especially where there are probably plenty of other similar things/instances which suit the narrative so they're more hesitant about it as opposed to just nicking someone straight away.

You are perfectly entitled to take umbrage and argue for change. The reason these orders were originally issued was to stop the intimidation of those using the centres, not to stop anyone holding beliefs, campaigning for them or protesting.

The police did not arrest this lady immediately. They tried to persuade her to move away to somewhere not covered by the order but she refused and practically demanded to be arrested, all the time being videoed so it could be shown to their supporters and spun as propaganda. This was all a stunt and not anything else.

 


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 1.46pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

So is the offence the same if she was holding up a banner. I’m just trying to ascertain whether there is a difference in the crime, even though one would be more evident to an onlooker and potentially more hurtful, whereas silent prayer is in the mind of the thinker.

Yes it is the same.

If the police decide the action is likely to intimidate then the order has been broken. The lady is a well know anti abortion activist. Not a passerby just pausing to think where she has put her ticket.

 


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 1.50pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I have no idea nor do I see the relevance of this.

If the establishment desperately wanted to protect Jews or persecute Muslims/a particular Muslim however, and caught a Muslim who was already on their radar atop a prayer mate within close vicinity to a Synagogue, I'd pretty much guarantee they'd arrest them.

Again, I'd use the analogy of someone with a restraining order against them loitering 1m outside of that distance, near whomever the order was enacted for, perhaps this time solving a Rubiks Cube.

They wouldn't be arrested for the Rubiks cube, but for their physical presence and perceived intention, given the context and albeit technically outside of that zone.

Decent analogy. I wonder if it will be understood.

 


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 1.52pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I feel as though the above debate has been rumbling on forever

Is it fair to say this woman was not arrested for praying in her head but for deliberately loitering within a space where it was not allowed? I remember the old 'no loitering' signs which police did enforce.

She was surely arrested for her physical presence, not for her thoughts/prayers? I cannot remember the bible verse decreeing 'Thou shalt stand within 'x' distance of the abortion clinic when silently praying'.

I might suggest there's an argument for saying that the law in this instance should be changed, whether that be the Orwellian nature of it or the ambiguity in enforcing it, dependant on your side of the fence, however the headline 'arrested for silently praying' is misleading.

It's a bit like saying 'I've been arrested for tying my shoelaces' when standing for two hours, 101m from an ex partner I've been harassing, with a court order to stay 100m away in effect. That's all hypothetical of course I'm not in that situation... the court actually said 500m.

Another good analogy.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 13 Dec 23 3.15pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Standing where she was, in an area covered by an exclusion order.

You can protest about abortion. You can pray silently. You can campaign to ban the issuing of exclusion orders.

What you cannot do is break orders legally obtained and in force.

She was not banned from the area. She was banned from protesting in the area. She was merely standing there silently. The courts agree with this as an identical previous case was thrown out by the magistrate. She broke no order and no law, she was a victim of unlawful arrest and I hope she successfully sues the police.

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 5.20pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

She was not banned from the area. She was banned from protesting in the area. She was merely standing there silently. The courts agree with this as an identical previous case was thrown out by the magistrate. She broke no order and no law, she was a victim of unlawful arrest and I hope she successfully sues the police.

You must have an aversion to the truth the number of times you spin the same misinformation.

Nobody said she was banned from the area. She was arrested for being in an area where behaviour deemed to be intimidatory by the police was observed. Something she admitted freely. She said she silently praying. If she said she was reminiscing about the last time Palace beat Brighton she probably would not have been, unless they recognised her and didn’t believe her. Mind you with the cameras that’s unlikely. She wanted to be arrested. The police didn’t want to arrest her. They have more important things to do.

I would not be surprised if they tried another publicity stunt and sued the police. What a farce.

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 13 Dec 23 5.46pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You must have an aversion to the truth the number of times you spin the same misinformation.

Nobody said she was banned from the area. She was arrested for being in an area where behaviour deemed to be intimidatory by the police was observed. Something she admitted freely. She said she silently praying. If she said she was reminiscing about the last time Palace beat Brighton she probably would not have been, unless they recognised her and didn’t believe her. Mind you with the cameras that’s unlikely. She wanted to be arrested. The police didn’t want to arrest her. They have more important things to do.

I would not be surprised if they tried another publicity stunt and sued the police. What a farce.

This is the point isn't it. She would not have been arrested for reminiscing about Palace, but she was for silently praying.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 13 Dec 23 8.11pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

This is called power.

Imagine if these particular wealthy elites had been doing this during the decades while these same people...who they themselves funding and promoted... were attacking white people.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2023 8.12pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 8.22pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

This is the point isn't it. She would not have been arrested for reminiscing about Palace, but she was for silently praying.

She was arrested because she is a well known anti abortionist campaigner who openly admits to trying to talk to users of abortion services and “praying” for them. Her standing there, being videoed, in a place which users have been told is safe, would be seen by them and considered intimidating.

It doesn’t matter if she thought her actions were benign. It doesn’t matter that she sincerely believes abortion to be wrong, or that she has been sent by “God” to do his work. All that matters is that she obeys the law. Exclusion orders are not issued lightly. There would have very good reasons, presumably because of a history of users feeling intimidated by the past actions of others. What those actions were, whether sincere, thought innocent or helpful by those behind them,is immaterial. It’s how the users felt as they went about acquiring something that is completely legal.

Should she, or her backers, find a loophole in the law which convinces magistrates to acquit, then the terms of the exclusion orders will need to be revised to make sure that their intentions are not stymied because of stunts orchestrated by American activists.

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 13 Dec 23 8.23pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 13 Dec 23 8.31pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

She was arrested because she is a well known anti abortionist campaigner who openly admits to trying to talk to users of abortion services and “praying” for them. Her standing there, being videoed, in a place which users have been told is safe, would be seen by them and considered intimidating.

It doesn’t matter if she thought her actions were benign. It doesn’t matter that she sincerely believes abortion to be wrong, or that she has been sent by “God” to do his work. All that matters is that she obeys the law. Exclusion orders are not issued lightly. There would have very good reasons, presumably because of a history of users feeling intimidated by the past actions of others. What those actions were, whether sincere, thought innocent or helpful by those behind them,is immaterial. It’s how the users felt as they went about acquiring something that is completely legal.

Should she, or her backers, find a loophole in the law which convinces magistrates to acquit, then the terms of the exclusion orders will need to be revised to make sure that their intentions are not stymied because of stunts orchestrated by American activists.

So she was arrested because of who she is then?

She was found not guilty by the magistrate because she was not guilty, loopholes don't come into it.

How about arresting some of the anti-semite muslims that protest aggressively and intimidate every week.

 

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