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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 8.38am | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Why do you keep denying reality? The arresting officer said: “You’ve said you’ve been engaging in prayer, which is the offense.” He said her offence was engaging in prayer, she wasn’t even sure herself whether she was actually silently praying – when does a thought become a prayer? She had been to court previously on exactly the same charge and was found not guilty. The police apologised to her. The government wrote to the police to remind them that silent praying was not unlawful. Once again, your squid-ink waffle does not change reality. (PS: don’t presume to pompously tell me under what conditions I can reply to posts.) The denial of reality is entirely yours. You will find the reality more extensively explained in the link I provided, which you conveniently ignore. Replying without considering the information it contains is just ignorance. Was that all the policeman said, or only the bit that was included in the propaganda video? It is, of course, true. She was arrested for praying, but what is being deliberately ignored is the context. She was behaving (in this instance praying) in a way and in a place where such behaviour is not allowed. She was free to behave like that in a million other places. Her freedom to do so was never impacted. She was just restricted from making a nuisance of herself in one specific location. It’s not difficult to understand. Only the wilfully blind and deaf refuse to see past the propaganda that’s being blown over them. The police apologised for the delay. Not for her arrest. Silent praying is not unlawful. Braverman writing to the police stating the obvious is just her playing to the crowd in her populist way. What’s unlawful is breaking exclusion orders. Those who believe propaganda are bound to remain uninformed.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 13 Dec 23 9.44am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The denial of reality is entirely yours. You will find the reality more extensively explained in the link I provided, which you conveniently ignore. Replying without considering the information it contains is just ignorance. Was that all the policeman said, or only the bit that was included in the propaganda video? It is, of course, true. She was arrested for praying, but what is being deliberately ignored is the context. She was behaving (in this instance praying) in a way and in a place where such behaviour is not allowed. She was free to behave like that in a million other places. Her freedom to do so was never impacted. She was just restricted from making a nuisance of herself in one specific location. It’s not difficult to understand. Only the wilfully blind and deaf refuse to see past the propaganda that’s being blown over them. The police apologised for the delay. Not for her arrest. Silent praying is not unlawful. Braverman writing to the police stating the obvious is just her playing to the crowd in her populist way. What’s unlawful is breaking exclusion orders. Those who believe propaganda are bound to remain uninformed. I’m not obliged to view links that you think I should view, insisting that I am is just coercive intimidation – the sort of thing that rogue landlords get up to. If you are keen on links here is one of the woman herself speaking about her arrest. She was charged with protesting by silently praying. As there was no measurable level of protest, intimidation or harassment, her ‘crime’ can have only been a thought crime. Only the wilfully blind and deaf refuse to see this. As Orwell said: We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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georgenorman 13 Dec 23 9.47am | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
I’m not obliged to view links that you think I should view, insisting that I am is just coercive intimidation – the sort of thing that rogue landlords get up to. If you are keen on links here is one of the woman herself speaking about her arrest. She was charged with protesting by silently praying. As there was no measurable level of protest, intimidation or harassment, her ‘crime’ can have only been a thought crime. Only the wilfully blind and deaf refuse to see this. The courts of course found her not guilty as thought crime is (not yet) a crime. As Orwell said: We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.
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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Dec 23 10.09am | |
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I feel as though the above debate has been rumbling on forever Is it fair to say this woman was not arrested for praying in her head but for deliberately loitering within a space where it was not allowed? I remember the old 'no loitering' signs which police did enforce. She was surely arrested for her physical presence, not for her thoughts/prayers? I cannot remember the bible verse decreeing 'Thou shalt stand within 'x' distance of the abortion clinic when silently praying'. I might suggest there's an argument for saying that the law in this instance should be changed, whether that be the Orwellian nature of it or the ambiguity in enforcing it, dependant on your side of the fence, however the headline 'arrested for silently praying' is misleading. It's a bit like saying 'I've been arrested for tying my shoelaces' when standing for two hours, 101m from an ex partner I've been harassing, with a court order to stay 100m away in effect. That's all hypothetical of course I'm not in that situation... the court actually said 500m.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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Stirlingsays 13 Dec 23 10.18am | |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
I feel as though the above debate has been rumbling on forever Is it fair to say this woman was not arrested for praying in her head but for deliberately loitering within a space where it was not allowed? I remember the old 'no loitering' signs which police did enforce. She was surely arrested for her physical presence, not for her thoughts/prayers? I cannot remember the bible verse decreeing 'Thou shalt stand within 'x' distance of the abortion clinic when silently praying'. I might suggest there's an argument for saying that the law in this instance should be changed, whether that be the Orwellian nature of it or the ambiguity in enforcing it, dependant on your side of the fence, however the headline 'arrested for silently praying' is misleading. It's a bit like saying 'I've been arrested for tying my shoelaces' when standing for two hours, 101m from an ex partner I've been harassing, with a court order to stay 100m away in effect. That's all hypothetical of course I'm not in that situation... the court actually said 500m. You could get the impression that the regime want to essentially make it illegal to protest abortion.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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georgenorman 13 Dec 23 10.26am | |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
I feel as though the above debate has been rumbling on forever Is it fair to say this woman was not arrested for praying in her head but for deliberately loitering within a space where it was not allowed? I remember the old 'no loitering' signs which police did enforce. She was surely arrested for her physical presence, not for her thoughts/prayers? I cannot remember the bible verse decreeing 'Thou shalt stand within 'x' distance of the abortion clinic when silently praying'. I might suggest there's an argument for saying that the law in this instance should be changed, whether that be the Orwellian nature of it or the ambiguity in enforcing it, dependant on your side of the fence, however the headline 'arrested for silently praying' is misleading. It's a bit like saying 'I've been arrested for tying my shoelaces' when standing for two hours, 101m from an ex partner I've been harassing, with a court order to stay 100m away in effect. That's all hypothetical of course I'm not in that situation... the court actually said 500m. The arresting officer said: “You’ve said you’ve been engaging in prayer, which is the offense.”
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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Dec 23 1.05pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You could get the impression that the regime want to essentially make it illegal to protest abortion. That would be my grievance, and what I would suggest this is actually about, not her praying. 'We don't want you disturbing that which we condone, for whatever reason or because it suits our narrative'. I do take umbrage at that, especially where there are probably plenty of other similar things/instances which suit the narrative so they're more hesitant about it as opposed to just nicking someone straight away.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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georgenorman 13 Dec 23 1.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
That would be my grievance, and what I would suggest this is actually about, not her praying. 'We don't want you disturbing that which we condone, for whatever reason or because it suits our narrative'. I do take umbrage at that, especially where there are probably plenty of other similar things/instances which suit the narrative so they're more hesitant about it as opposed to just nicking someone straight away. How many Muslims have been arrested for silently praying for the death of all Jews?
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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 13 Dec 23 1.18pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
How many Muslims have been arrested for silently praying for the death of all Jews? I have no idea nor do I see the relevance of this. If the establishment desperately wanted to protect Jews or persecute Muslims/a particular Muslim however, and caught a Muslim who was already on their radar atop a prayer mate within close vicinity to a Synagogue, I'd pretty much guarantee they'd arrest them. Again, I'd use the analogy of someone with a restraining order against them loitering 1m outside of that distance, near whomever the order was enacted for, perhaps this time solving a Rubiks Cube. They wouldn't be arrested for the Rubiks cube, but for their physical presence and perceived intention, given the context and albeit technically outside of that zone.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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georgenorman 13 Dec 23 1.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Nicholas91
I have no idea nor do I see the relevance of this. If the establishment desperately wanted to protect Jews or persecute Muslims/a particular Muslim however, and caught a Muslim who was already on their radar atop a prayer mate within close vicinity to a Synagogue, I'd pretty much guarantee they'd arrest them. Again, I'd use the analogy of someone with a restraining order against them loitering 1m outside of that distance, near whomever the order was enacted for, perhaps this time solving a Rubiks Cube. They wouldn't be arrested for the Rubiks cube, but for their physical presence and perceived intention, given the context and albeit technically outside of that zone. The relevance is pretty obvious.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 1.30pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
I’m not obliged to view links that you think I should view, insisting that I am is just coercive intimidation – the sort of thing that rogue landlords get up to. If you are keen on links here is one of the woman herself speaking about her arrest. She was charged with protesting by silently praying. As there was no measurable level of protest, intimidation or harassment, her ‘crime’ can have only been a thought crime. Only the wilfully blind and deaf refuse to see this. As Orwell said: We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. I watch your links because I want to understand both sides of an argument. Unlike yourself who has a completely closed mind and decides things are “coercive” without even viewing them. Maybe you cannot see just how hypocritical that is. Maybe others can. It’s a well produced and scripted video. I have no doubt that this lady is sincere in her beliefs but she is being used. She condemns herself by what she says, and even more by what she doesn’t say. She wasn’t’t arrested for “having silent thoughts in her head”! She was arrested for standing where she was not allowed to be and having what she admitted to the police. Who asked her to move to somewhere where there weren’t any restrictions but she refused. She gave the police no options. What she doesn’t say, in my view very deliberately not in the script, was that where she stood was covered by an exclusion order. She admits that she prays outside abortion centres so standing close to one, in an area covered by an order and admitting to the police that she was praying “silently”, was to invite arrest. Her crime was not the thought. It was breaking the requirements of the exclusion order. It’s not difficult to understand that, no matter how many times you pretend not to. That’s what’s obvious. Orwell would, I am quite sure, agree for he was an intelligent man.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Dec 23 1.34pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
The arresting officer said: “You’ve said you’ve been engaging in prayer, which is the offense.” Standing where she was, in an area covered by an exclusion order. You can protest about abortion. You can pray silently. You can campaign to ban the issuing of exclusion orders. What you cannot do is break orders legally obtained and in force.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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