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matt_himself Matataland 07 Dec 16 5.55am
Originally posted by Kermit8 This was not an election merely an opinion poll via a tick. Elections in the UK have to be taken seriously and at face value. The country's very being depends on it. Besides there will be another one along in a minute. Opinion polls/Referendums don't have to be taken too seriously They should be analysed with a measure of caution and views tweaked when necessary for the good of the nation. Playing hardline Brexit will benefit no-one except the far right and far left who will take it as some kind of approval of their twisted ideology. So what you are saying is that should Sturgeon force through a second Scottish independence referendum, then we are entitled to ignore the result? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 07 Dec 16 5.55am

Originally posted by Kermit8

This was not an election merely an opinion poll via a tick. Elections in the UK have to be taken seriously and at face value. The country's very being depends on it. Besides there will be another one along in a minute.

Opinion polls/Referendums don't have to be taken too seriously They should be analysed with a measure of caution and views tweaked when necessary for the good of the nation.

Playing hardline Brexit will benefit no-one except the far right and far left who will take it as some kind of approval of their twisted ideology.

So what you are saying is that should Sturgeon force through a second Scottish independence referendum, then we are entitled to ignore the result?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Kermit8 Hevon 07 Dec 16 8.19am
Originally posted by matt_himself So what you are saying is that should Sturgeon force through a second Scottish independence referendum, then we are entitled to ignore the result? You need better glasses. No, what I am saying is a softly, softly approach to Brexit, if it is in the best interests of the country, should be the way to go, not to ignore the result. If however those of a hardline are pursuant of a total break even if it would do the country serious harm then 'yes' that line of direction should be ignored or at best pandered to on the surface (politics) but with no intention of completing. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 07 Dec 16 8.19am

Originally posted by matt_himself

So what you are saying is that should Sturgeon force through a second Scottish independence referendum, then we are entitled to ignore the result?

You need better glasses.

No, what I am saying is a softly, softly approach to Brexit, if it is in the best interests of the country, should be the way to go, not to ignore the result.

If however those of a hardline are pursuant of a total break even if it would do the country serious harm then 'yes' that line of direction should be ignored or at best pandered to on the surface (politics) but with no intention of completing.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Dec 16 8.19am
Originally posted by matt_himself So what you are saying is that should Sturgeon force through a second Scottish independence referendum, then we are entitled to ignore the result? Depends on whether it's binding or advisory I'd imagine. Read the small print!
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Dec 16 8.19am

Originally posted by matt_himself

So what you are saying is that should Sturgeon force through a second Scottish independence referendum, then we are entitled to ignore the result?

Depends on whether it's binding or advisory I'd imagine. Read the small print!

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matt_himself Matataland 07 Dec 16 8.36am
Originally posted by Kermit8 You need better glasses. No, what I am saying is a softly, softly approach to Brexit, if it is in the best interests of the country, should be the way to go, not to ignore the result. If however those of a hardline are pursuant of a total break even if it would do the country serious harm then 'yes' that line of direction should be ignored or at best pandered to on the surface (politics) but with no intention of completing. Huh? You said: 'Opinion Polls and referendum don't have to be taken too seriously'. That appears at face value that you are saying they can be ignored. Except, of course, when you get the result you want from them. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 07 Dec 16 8.36am

Originally posted by Kermit8

You need better glasses.

No, what I am saying is a softly, softly approach to Brexit, if it is in the best interests of the country, should be the way to go, not to ignore the result.

Huh?

You said:

'Opinion Polls and referendum don't have to be taken too seriously'.

That appears at face value that you are saying they can be ignored. Except, of course, when you get the result you want from them.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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legaleagle 07 Dec 16 9.15am
Originally posted by matt_himself Huh? You said: 'Opinion Polls and referendum don't have to be taken too seriously'. That appears at face value that you are saying they can be ignored. Except, of course, when you get the result you want from them. Seems to be the stance of your oft praised "man of principle" N Farage,no? The Mirror,May 2016: Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month. The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot. Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”
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legaleagle

07 Dec 16 9.15am

Originally posted by matt_himself

Huh?

You said:

'Opinion Polls and referendum don't have to be taken too seriously'.

That appears at face value that you are saying they can be ignored. Except, of course, when you get the result you want from them.

Seems to be the stance of your oft praised "man of principle" N Farage,no?

The Mirror,May 2016:

Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Dec 16 9.23am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger People really need to stop with the post Nazi Germany hyperbole. No one is going to a camp or being shot against a wall. Brexit is about trying to rescue this country from the madness of uncontrolled globalisation. Some of you can't think past next week I know but the future looks bleak on the path we are on. Quite agree, if it was the BNP or National Front et al, it would be a different matter. Hyperbole, left or right, adds nothing. Although I do fear being sent to Butlins, after a bad experience in 1982 "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Dec 16 9.23am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

People really need to stop with the post Nazi Germany hyperbole.
No one is going to a camp or being shot against a wall.

Brexit is about trying to rescue this country from the madness of uncontrolled globalisation. Some of you can't think past next week I know but the future looks bleak on the path we are on.

Quite agree, if it was the BNP or National Front et al, it would be a different matter. Hyperbole, left or right, adds nothing.

Although I do fear being sent to Butlins, after a bad experience in 1982

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 07 Dec 16 9.25am
Originally posted by legaleagle Seems to be the stance of your oft praised "man of principle" N Farage,no? The Mirror,May 2016: Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month. The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot. Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.” It was a question to Michael on his seemingly inconsistent point. Thanks for the distraction though, Legal. What are you up to today? Prowling the streets dressed in period clothing and shouting 'je suis Napoleon' or having ECT? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 07 Dec 16 9.25am

Originally posted by legaleagle

Seems to be the stance of your oft praised "man of principle" N Farage,no?

The Mirror,May 2016:

Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

It was a question to Michael on his seemingly inconsistent point.

Thanks for the distraction though, Legal. What are you up to today? Prowling the streets dressed in period clothing and shouting 'je suis Napoleon' or having ECT?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Dec 16 9.26am
Originally posted by matt_himself The Lib Dems are trying to manipulate the situation for their own ends. If you cannot see this, or refuse to see this, that is your decision. Well yes, but then that's how politics kind of works, a bit like how UKIP jumped on the immigration popularist bandwagon, or how the Conservatives adopted gay politics, or New Labour embraced the corporate state etc. You have to remember, that politicians by nature are devious, odious little s**ts, who'd say the moon was made of cheese if it meant getting more votes. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Dec 16 9.26am

Originally posted by matt_himself

The Lib Dems are trying to manipulate the situation for their own ends.

If you cannot see this, or refuse to see this, that is your decision.

Well yes, but then that's how politics kind of works, a bit like how UKIP jumped on the immigration popularist bandwagon, or how the Conservatives adopted gay politics, or New Labour embraced the corporate state etc.

You have to remember, that politicians by nature are devious, odious little s**ts, who'd say the moon was made of cheese if it meant getting more votes.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Dec 16 9.35am
Originally posted by steeleye20 you know the ref was advisory only and not binding on the government Well yes, but its a very tricky spot for a government, that claims to be democratic, to ignore a referendum of the people. By its very nature, that would be a constitutional crisis, and a massive issue for any political party to recover from. Especially in an era where trust of politicians is at an all time low. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Dec 16 9.35am

Originally posted by steeleye20

you know the ref was advisory only and not binding on the government

Well yes, but its a very tricky spot for a government, that claims to be democratic, to ignore a referendum of the people. By its very nature, that would be a constitutional crisis, and a massive issue for any political party to recover from. Especially in an era where trust of politicians is at an all time low.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Dec 16 9.42am
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted Hold on a minute.... the original referendum in 1975 which resulted in us joining what was the common market was accepted in good grace by those who lost the vote! Since then the previously innocuous common market has become the EU federal state. If anything has been achieved by "preposterous lies" then surely that is what has happened to the UK with our enforced membership of the EU. No one in 1975 envisaged 300,000+ EU citizens arriving in the UK each and every year causing such hardship to communities with ghettos, lack of housing, schools, hospitals, etc. As you said the ballot paper was self explanatory.... you voted to remain or leave. Leave won this time, so just like in 1975, the losers should suck it up and accept that democracy has determined our departure from the EU. No legal challenge, no 2nd referendum to ratify terms, no Parliamentary debate. Brexit means Brexit now is just the same as our joining the common market in 1975 followed the people's voting decision. I was disappointed in 1975, but I accepted it. Please have the courtesy and respect to accept the country's decision now. 1975, you were probably wrong though. Membership of the Common Market worked very well for the UK, and the EU as a trade body and arbitrator in law, serves the interests of the UK and the people of the UK, far more than independence would have. But I do agree, that unless a party wins an election on the basis of second referendum in their manifesto or maybe wins an election on the basis of a remain vote, then no do-overs, second referendums or the like. The people have spoken, and maybe some of them have changed their mind, but until a democratic mandate establishes that the people want a second referendum or to change the decision, then accepting that vote is only democratic choice - Parliament must puruse an exit, even if its 'bad for the UK' or its interests. Parliament represents the will of the people, not the interests of economic groups in society. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Dec 16 9.42am

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Hold on a minute.... the original referendum in 1975 which resulted in us joining what was the common market was accepted in good grace by those who lost the vote!

Since then the previously innocuous common market has become the EU federal state.

If anything has been achieved by "preposterous lies" then surely that is what has happened to the UK with our enforced membership of the EU. No one in 1975 envisaged 300,000+ EU citizens arriving in the UK each and every year causing such hardship to communities with ghettos, lack of housing, schools, hospitals, etc.

As you said the ballot paper was self explanatory.... you voted to remain or leave.

Leave won this time, so just like in 1975, the losers should suck it up and accept that democracy has determined our departure from the EU.

No legal challenge, no 2nd referendum to ratify terms, no Parliamentary debate.

Brexit means Brexit now is just the same as our joining the common market in 1975 followed the people's voting decision.

I was disappointed in 1975, but I accepted it. Please have the courtesy and respect to accept the country's decision now.

1975, you were probably wrong though. Membership of the Common Market worked very well for the UK, and the EU as a trade body and arbitrator in law, serves the interests of the UK and the people of the UK, far more than independence would have.

But I do agree, that unless a party wins an election on the basis of second referendum in their manifesto or maybe wins an election on the basis of a remain vote, then no do-overs, second referendums or the like.

The people have spoken, and maybe some of them have changed their mind, but until a democratic mandate establishes that the people want a second referendum or to change the decision, then accepting that vote is only democratic choice - Parliament must puruse an exit, even if its 'bad for the UK' or its interests.

Parliament represents the will of the people, not the interests of economic groups in society.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 9.59am
Looking forward to Mrs May's 'red white and blue' brexit? Well that's the French flag colors. How appropriate..... The tricolor at Selhurst Park permanently.
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steeleye20

Croydon 07 Dec 16 9.59am

Looking forward to Mrs May's 'red white and blue' brexit?

Well that's the French flag colors.

How appropriate.....

The tricolor at Selhurst Park permanently.

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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Dec 16 10.07am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well yes, but its a very tricky spot for a government, that claims to be democratic, to ignore a referendum of the people. By its very nature, that would be a constitutional crisis, and a massive issue for any political party to recover from. Especially in an era where trust of politicians is at an all time low. Couldn't disagree more a referendum is just an opinion poll it doesn't have a legal status unless the enabling bill makes it so. Thats the root of the problem that the enabling bill does not specify any action upon the result except to advise. This is where our millions go on badly drafted legislation. Do take your point.
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steeleye20

Croydon 07 Dec 16 10.07am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Couldn't disagree more a referendum is just an opinion poll it doesn't have a legal status unless the enabling bill makes it so.

Thats the root of the problem that the enabling bill does not specify any action upon the result except to advise.

This is where our millions go on badly drafted legislation.

Do take your point.

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