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kangel 16 May 14 4.36pm
Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here. [Link] "ripped apart", I don't think so, the odious James O'Brien couldn't rip apart a paper bag, all he does is be abusive and distort 'facts'. His abusive style even extends to old ladies though - when such a lady was a caller discussing health costs, she said there was nothing she could do about the cost to the nation for her care. Fearless, right-on broadcaster O'Brien said "you could die". Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm)
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kangel

16 May 14 4.36pm

Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm

Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here.

[Link]

"ripped apart", I don't think so, the odious James O'Brien couldn't rip apart a paper bag, all he does is be abusive and distort 'facts'. His abusive style even extends to old ladies though - when such a lady was a caller discussing health costs, she said there was nothing she could do about the cost to the nation for her care. Fearless, right-on broadcaster O'Brien said "you could die".

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm)

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kangel 16 May 14 4.37pm
Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.44pm)
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kangel

16 May 14 4.37pm

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.44pm)

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luckybuck 16 May 14 7.00pm
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here. [Link] "ripped apart", I don't think so, the odious James O'Brien couldn't rip apart a paper bag, all he does is be abusive and distort 'facts'. His abusive style even extends to old ladies though - when such a lady was a caller discussing health costs, she said there was nothing she could do about the cost to the nation for her care. Fearless, right-on broadcaster O'Brien said "you could die". Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm) 'n*gger'... 'shooting pooftas'. Do those aspects of the clip not deserve comdenation, not just how you feel about 'abusive' and 'right on' O'Brien? Or have UKIP supporters given up on the idea that the revolving door of unhinged individuals is anything other than an ongoing and endless process in comparison to other parties?
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luckybuck

16 May 14 7.00pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm

Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm

Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here.

[Link]

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm)

'n*gger'... 'shooting pooftas'. Do those aspects of the clip not deserve comdenation, not just how you feel about 'abusive' and 'right on' O'Brien? Or have UKIP supporters given up on the idea that the revolving door of unhinged individuals is anything other than an ongoing and endless process in comparison to other parties?

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kangel 16 May 14 7.04pm
Quote luckybuck at 16 May 2014 7.00pm Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here. [Link] "ripped apart", I don't think so, the odious James O'Brien couldn't rip apart a paper bag, all he does is be abusive and distort 'facts'. His abusive style even extends to old ladies though - when such a lady was a caller discussing health costs, she said there was nothing she could do about the cost to the nation for her care. Fearless, right-on broadcaster O'Brien said "you could die". Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm) 'n*gger'... 'shooting pooftas'. Do those aspects of the clip not deserve comdenation, not just how you feel about 'abusive' and 'right on' O'Brien? Or have UKIP supporters given up on the idea that the revolving door of unhinged individuals is anything other than an ongoing and endless process in comparison to other parties? Doesn't telling an old lady to die 'deserve condemnation'? But no doubt you think the 'N' word and the 'P' word are far worse than telling someone to die?
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kangel

16 May 14 7.04pm

Quote luckybuck at 16 May 2014 7.00pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm

Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm

Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here.

[Link]

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm)

Doesn't telling an old lady to die 'deserve condemnation'? But no doubt you think the 'N' word and the 'P' word are far worse than telling someone to die?

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 16 May 14 7.11pm
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 12.35pm Quote SloveniaDave at 16 May 2014 9.09am Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.52am Quote SloveniaDave at 15 May 2014 11.04pm [b]May's 'elections' will see big losses for all pro-EU parties, ie the three major parties and hopefully, the Liberals in particular. Pro-EU remnants will then say that the answer is 'more Europe', whatever the economic reality and whatever the wishes of their constituents. For years, their policies have caused unemployment, deflation and emigration across Europe, while the IOUs pile up in the richer member states. Nothing makes them question their faith. No amount of suffering, no amount of debt moves them to admit that the single currency might have been a mistake. They are literally beyond argument - which raises the question, who are the real extremists here? Can't argue with the first point and there are certainly major problems with the single currency, although most are about how it was introduced, rather than the principle of it. I don't see how the rest of your post makes much sense though. The debate is very much moving towards a 'smaller Europe', which I think is sensible, but to blame 'Europe' for unemployment and deflation is not supported by the facts. I am not clear, from your posts, what you propose as an alternative though? Are you looking for an isolated, UKIP-style UK, a UK as the 51st state of the USA or the Socialist Republic of Britain? Edited by SloveniaDave (15 May 2014 11.04pm) 'Major problems' with the single currency - don't you mean the biggest disaster in financial history? (If only it had been 'introduced' better!!!! Then it would have been a roaring success?) If we are 'isolated' from the whirlpool of the EU disappearing down its own plughole under the weight of its inherent contradictions - fine. 'Socialst Republic of Britain (you think I advocate that?) - the EU has far more in common with the various failed Communist 'systems' of the past with its ludicrous 'planning', 'controls' and rigged markets. Not at all. I have been living and working in Eurozone countries (or countries who peg their currency to the Euro) for almost 10 years. The problem with the Euro is that it was not introduced with the full range of measures needed (i.e. countermeasures to allow for the fact that devaluation was no longer an option for weaker economies). As a result, when the financial crisis started, it was more vulnerable and the weaknesses showed. I fully support the UK's decision to remain outside the Euro (both then and now, and for the foreseeable future) but that does not mean it is a bad thing for most of the counties who are members of it. Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.10am) Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.11am) "the full range of measures" EU-speak for useless 'controls' and 'planning' that try to buck the market - the sort of thing that is at the heart of most of the problems with the EU. Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways. In terms of the Euro, they moved too quickly, before having greater genuine convergence and, most importantly, much more rigorous, independent checks on all the economies before they joined so that they came in at a credible exchange level. But the reality is that it has still survived the biggest economic crisis in living memory and is intact. I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be. The problems in most of the Eurozone countries which have needed support was that they were inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt (or at 2 of the 4 in some cases). The tensions within the Eurozone have exposed them much more effectively than had they been outside and simply devalued their currencies until they were worthless. The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners. Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 7.12pm) Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 16 May 14 7.11pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 12.35pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 16 May 2014 9.09am

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.52am

Quote SloveniaDave at 15 May 2014 11.04pm

[b]May's 'elections' will see big losses for all pro-EU parties, ie the three major parties and hopefully, the Liberals in particular. Pro-EU remnants will then say that the answer is 'more Europe', whatever the economic reality and whatever the wishes of their constituents. For years, their policies have caused unemployment, deflation and emigration across Europe, while the IOUs pile up in the richer member states. Nothing makes them question their faith. No amount of suffering, no amount of debt moves them to admit that the single currency might have been a mistake. They are literally beyond argument - which raises the question, who are the real extremists here?

Can't argue with the first point and there are certainly major problems with the single currency, although most are about how it was introduced, rather than the principle of it.

I don't see how the rest of your post makes much sense though. The debate is very much moving towards a 'smaller Europe', which I think is sensible, but to blame 'Europe' for unemployment and deflation is not supported by the facts.

I am not clear, from your posts, what you propose as an alternative though? Are you looking for an isolated, UKIP-style UK, a UK as the 51st state of the USA or the Socialist Republic of Britain?

Edited by SloveniaDave (15 May 2014 11.04pm)

'Major problems' with the single currency - don't you mean the biggest disaster in financial history? (If only it had been 'introduced' better!!!! Then it would have been a roaring success?)

If we are 'isolated' from the whirlpool of the EU disappearing down its own plughole under the weight of its inherent contradictions - fine. 'Socialst Republic of Britain (you think I advocate that?) - the EU has far more in common with the various failed Communist 'systems' of the past with its ludicrous 'planning', 'controls' and rigged markets.

Not at all. I have been living and working in Eurozone countries (or countries who peg their currency to the Euro) for almost 10 years. The problem with the Euro is that it was not introduced with the full range of measures needed (i.e. countermeasures to allow for the fact that devaluation was no longer an option for weaker economies). As a result, when the financial crisis started, it was more vulnerable and the weaknesses showed.

I fully support the UK's decision to remain outside the Euro (both then and now, and for the foreseeable future) but that does not mean it is a bad thing for most of the counties who are members of it.

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.10am)

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.11am)

"the full range of measures" EU-speak for useless 'controls' and 'planning' that try to buck the market - the sort of thing that is at the heart of most of the problems with the EU.

Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways.

In terms of the Euro, they moved too quickly, before having greater genuine convergence and, most importantly, much more rigorous, independent checks on all the economies before they joined so that they came in at a credible exchange level. But the reality is that it has still survived the biggest economic crisis in living memory and is intact.

I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be.

The problems in most of the Eurozone countries which have needed support was that they were inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt (or at 2 of the 4 in some cases). The tensions within the Eurozone have exposed them much more effectively than had they been outside and simply devalued their currencies until they were worthless.

The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners.

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 7.12pm)

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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luckybuck 16 May 14 7.17pm
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.04pm Quote luckybuck at 16 May 2014 7.00pm Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here. [Link] "ripped apart", I don't think so, the odious James O'Brien couldn't rip apart a paper bag, all he does is be abusive and distort 'facts'. His abusive style even extends to old ladies though - when such a lady was a caller discussing health costs, she said there was nothing she could do about the cost to the nation for her care. Fearless, right-on broadcaster O'Brien said "you could die". Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm) 'n*gger'... 'shooting pooftas'. Do those aspects of the clip not deserve comdenation, not just how you feel about 'abusive' and 'right on' O'Brien? Or have UKIP supporters given up on the idea that the revolving door of unhinged individuals is anything other than an ongoing and endless process in comparison to other parties? Doesn't telling an old lady to die 'deserve condemnation'? But no doubt you think the 'N' word and the 'P' word are far worse than telling someone to die? Why on earth would I repeat that when I was directly highlighting it to make the point that your attack was lopsided? You attacked his character based on what you're telling me he's said about an old lady at one point in time. I'm saying that, by the exact same token a party can be judged by what its members say, and that you as a supporter didn't seem, and still don't for that matter, bothered about actual statements referenced in the clip. I'm not going to get in a silly debate with you about if talking about shooting gay people dead is better or worse than saying disgraceful things about an old lady. I'm not because by nature I recognise both of these statements as horrendous and apparently by nature you reduce down and understate the former comment to saying the 'P' word. You should aim to get away from the kind of preconceptions that plague the party, not adhere to or embrace them. Edited by luckybuck (16 May 2014 7.29pm)
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luckybuck

16 May 14 7.17pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.04pm

Quote luckybuck at 16 May 2014 7.00pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm

Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm

Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here.

[Link]

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm)

Doesn't telling an old lady to die 'deserve condemnation'? But no doubt you think the 'N' word and the 'P' word are far worse than telling someone to die?

Why on earth would I repeat that when I was directly highlighting it to make the point that your attack was lopsided? You attacked his character based on what you're telling me he's said about an old lady at one point in time. I'm saying that, by the exact same token a party can be judged by what its members say, and that you as a supporter didn't seem, and still don't for that matter, bothered about actual statements referenced in the clip.

I'm not going to get in a silly debate with you about if talking about shooting gay people dead is better or worse than saying disgraceful things about an old lady. I'm not because by nature I recognise both of these statements as horrendous and apparently by nature you reduce down and understate the former comment to saying the 'P' word. You should aim to get away from the kind of preconceptions that plague the party, not adhere to or embrace them.

Edited by luckybuck (16 May 2014 7.29pm)

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kangel 16 May 14 8.08pm
. Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 8.09pm)
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kangel

16 May 14 8.08pm

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 8.09pm)

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kangel 16 May 14 8.09pm
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.08pm Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways. Having control of who comes to live and work in this country certainly should be a function of our government. It is not bucking the market, it is choosing which immigrants we want to satisfy our market requirements and rejecting the rest. Yes, there should be free movement of goods and services – if goods are produced that people want at a price they are prepared to pay, then fine. In terms of the Euro, they moved too quickly, before having greater genuine convergence and, most importantly, much more rigorous, independent checks on all the economies before they joined so that they came in at a credible exchange level. But the reality is that it has still survived the biggest economic crisis in living memory and is intact. Imposing (or as you say ‘converging’) a single currency on such divers economies was always doomed to failure. ‘Survived’? Staggering around the ring like a drunken boxer more like. I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be. I don’t imagine you will either, but why would I wish it to be Dante’s Inferno? The problems in most of the Eurozone countries which have needed support was that they were inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt (or at 2 of the 4 in some cases). The tensions within the Eurozone have exposed them much more effectively than had they been outside and simply devalued their currencies until they were worthless. It is the EU that is more inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt than the countries suffering under its yoke. The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners. Yes, economic reality does have a habit of imposing itself.
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kangel

16 May 14 8.09pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.08pm

Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways.

Having control of who comes to live and work in this country certainly should be a function of our government. It is not bucking the market, it is choosing which immigrants we want to satisfy our market requirements and rejecting the rest. Yes, there should be free movement of goods and services – if goods are produced that people want at a price they are prepared to pay, then fine.

Imposing (or as you say ‘converging’) a single currency on such divers economies was always doomed to failure. ‘Survived’? Staggering around the ring like a drunken boxer more like.

I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be.

I don’t imagine you will either, but why would I wish it to be Dante’s Inferno?

It is the EU that is more inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt than the countries suffering under its yoke.

The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners.

Yes, economic reality does have a habit of imposing itself.

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Penge Eagle Beckenham 16 May 14 10.03pm
Quote The White Horse at 15 May 2014 12.55pm Quote Penge Eagle at 15 May 2014 9.59am To White Horse, question for you... Would you prefer to have totally unrestricted immigration and just limited to Europeans? All the rules made by bureaucrats in Belgium who have no real interest in the UK. OR Controlled immigration with people seeking asylum and immigrants who can fill certain job shortages that will benefit the country. Rules decided by our MPs in London and can easily held accountable. Having CONTROL ensures the balance between numbers and the impact on infrastructure and social aspects. The first option. I'm in favour of immigration, so obviously I'm going to pick the one that's less prohibitive to immigrants (even if it does indirectly mean immigrants are largely white). I don't think state control is useful, so I'd generally only endorse it for issues that are clearly national in nature and where state intervention is the best option. I'd argue immigration is quite obviously an international issue. I love the fact you are annoyed that your pro Euro stance means that unfortunately the immigrants are whiteys! Classic! It's also noted that you fail to recognise the impact of unplanned immigration has on communities and the strain on infrastructure, keeping wages low, impact school places and social housing etc etc. One day, this might impact your life but you are only just out of uni and come from a privileged background.
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Penge Eagle

Beckenham 16 May 14 10.03pm

Quote The White Horse at 15 May 2014 12.55pm

Quote Penge Eagle at 15 May 2014 9.59am

To White Horse, question for you...

Would you prefer to have totally unrestricted immigration and just limited to Europeans? All the rules made by bureaucrats in Belgium who have no real interest in the UK.

Controlled immigration with people seeking asylum and immigrants who can fill certain job shortages that will benefit the country. Rules decided by our MPs in London and can easily held accountable. Having CONTROL ensures the balance between numbers and the impact on infrastructure and social aspects.

The first option. I'm in favour of immigration, so obviously I'm going to pick the one that's less prohibitive to immigrants (even if it does indirectly mean immigrants are largely white).

I don't think state control is useful, so I'd generally only endorse it for issues that are clearly national in nature and where state intervention is the best option. I'd argue immigration is quite obviously an international issue.

I love the fact you are annoyed that your pro Euro stance means that unfortunately the immigrants are whiteys! Classic!

It's also noted that you fail to recognise the impact of unplanned immigration has on communities and the strain on infrastructure, keeping wages low, impact school places and social housing etc etc.

One day, this might impact your life but you are only just out of uni and come from a privileged background.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 May 14 10.14pm
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here. [Link] "ripped apart", I don't think so, the odious James O'Brien couldn't rip apart a paper bag, all he does is be abusive and distort 'facts'. His abusive style even extends to old ladies though - when such a lady was a caller discussing health costs, she said there was nothing she could do about the cost to the nation for her care. Fearless, right-on broadcaster O'Brien said "you could die". Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm) Someone makes salient points which cannot be defended so go for the person making the points instead. Polly Toynbee, Owen Jones et al are victims of this.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 May 14 10.14pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 4.36pm

Quote DanH at 16 May 2014 4.07pm

Farage getting ripped apart on LBC this morning here.

[Link]

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 4.36pm)

Someone makes salient points which cannot be defended so go for the person making the points instead. Polly Toynbee, Owen Jones et al are victims of this.

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 16 May 14 10.15pm
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.09pm Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.08pm Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways. Having control of who comes to live and work in this country certainly should be a function of our government. It is not bucking the market, it is choosing which immigrants we want to satisfy our market requirements and rejecting the rest. Yes, there should be free movement of goods and services – if goods are produced that people want at a price they are prepared to pay, then fine. In terms of the Euro, they moved too quickly, before having greater genuine convergence and, most importantly, much more rigorous, independent checks on all the economies before they joined so that they came in at a credible exchange level. But the reality is that it has still survived the biggest economic crisis in living memory and is intact. Imposing (or as you say ‘converging’) a single currency on such divers economies was always doomed to failure. ‘Survived’? Staggering around the ring like a drunken boxer more like. I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be. I don’t imagine you will either, but why would I wish it to be Dante’s Inferno? The problems in most of the Eurozone countries which have needed support was that they were inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt (or at 2 of the 4 in some cases). The tensions within the Eurozone have exposed them much more effectively than had they been outside and simply devalued their currencies until they were worthless. It is the EU that is more inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt than the countries suffering under its yoke. The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners. Yes, economic reality does have a habit of imposing itself. I tried. But comments like that display such a level of ignorance and prejudice that there's not much point continuing. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 16 May 14 10.15pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.09pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.08pm

Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways.

Imposing (or as you say ‘converging’) a single currency on such divers economies was always doomed to failure. ‘Survived’? Staggering around the ring like a drunken boxer more like.

I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be.

I don’t imagine you will either, but why would I wish it to be Dante’s Inferno?

It is the EU that is more inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt than the countries suffering under its yoke.

The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners.

Yes, economic reality does have a habit of imposing itself.

I tried. But comments like that display such a level of ignorance and prejudice that there's not much point continuing.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

Alert a moderator to this post

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 16 May 14 10.22pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 16 May 2014 10.15pm Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.09pm Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.08pm Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways. Having control of who comes to live and work in this country certainly should be a function of our government. It is not bucking the market, it is choosing which immigrants we want to satisfy our market requirements and rejecting the rest. Yes, there should be free movement of goods and services – if goods are produced that people want at a price they are prepared to pay, then fine. In terms of the Euro, they moved too quickly, before having greater genuine convergence and, most importantly, much more rigorous, independent checks on all the economies before they joined so that they came in at a credible exchange level. But the reality is that it has still survived the biggest economic crisis in living memory and is intact. Imposing (or as you say ‘converging’) a single currency on such divers economies was always doomed to failure. ‘Survived’? Staggering around the ring like a drunken boxer more like. I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be. I don’t imagine you will either, but why would I wish it to be Dante’s Inferno? The problems in most of the Eurozone countries which have needed support was that they were inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt (or at 2 of the 4 in some cases). The tensions within the Eurozone have exposed them much more effectively than had they been outside and simply devalued their currencies until they were worthless. It is the EU that is more inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt than the countries suffering under its yoke. The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners. Yes, economic reality does have a habit of imposing itself. I tried. But comments like that display such a level of ignorance and prejudice that there's not much point continuing. Misinformation prevails again.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 16 May 14 10.22pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 16 May 2014 10.15pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.09pm

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 8.08pm

Having free movement of goods and services, but restricting movement of people is trying to buck he market. You can't have it both ways.

Imposing (or as you say ‘converging’) a single currency on such divers economies was always doomed to failure. ‘Survived’? Staggering around the ring like a drunken boxer more like.

I don't imagine I will manage to persuade you, but living in Euroland is not the Dante's inferno you believe or wish it to be.

I don’t imagine you will either, but why would I wish it to be Dante’s Inferno?

It is the EU that is more inefficient, overpaid, underworked and corrupt than the countries suffering under its yoke.

The consequence is that many have had to take a very painful dose of economic reality which, in the long term, is good for us all as potential trading partners.

Yes, economic reality does have a habit of imposing itself.

I tried. But comments like that display such a level of ignorance and prejudice that there's not much point continuing.

Misinformation prevails again.

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