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General Election 2017

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 21 Apr 17 3.33pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Check out how much your local school will be losing because of Tory policy.

[Link]

Here is how Bromley will be affected. Look at the numbers of teachers that will be lost as a result.

Edited by nickgusset (20 Apr 2017 8.38pm)

You do realise that 'estimated' doesn't mean 'fact'...don't you?

 


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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 Apr 17 3.34pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

That's funny cos Nigel Farage has your arse tattooed on his face.

You need to work on your act.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.35pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

All I hope is that Twitter and Facebook don't reflect the intelligence levels of my fellow human beings.

To be fair, they might have read it in the Mail.

 

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 21 Apr 17 3.37pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Buying property isn't inward investment! It's just turning a UK income producing asset into cash, which has no income return. The income producing asset then sends all its income abroad.

The cash is then used to pay down debt by and large to reduce leverage on wider portfolios to reduce risk due to heightened economic risks brought about by Brexit.

Quote from today's Property Weekly: Chinese property giant Country Garden has set its sights on building tens of thousands of homes in London as it looks to take advantage of the “golden opportunity” political uncertainty provides for overseas capital, Property Week can reveal. Second top story is South Korea buying a Sainsbury's distributions centre in the Midlands for £100m. 4th story is Saudis buying an office in Maidenhead for £35m.

So rather than build homes ourself we buy them from China. We need the homes that's true enough, but Brexit has directly impacted our own ability to deliver them and instead we have to pay profits to the Chinese to do it!

On IMF forecasts: “The 0.9 percentage point upward revision to the 2017 forecast and the 0.2 percentage point downward revision to the 2018 forecast reflect the stronger-than-expected performance of the UK economy since the June Brexit vote, which points to a more gradual materialisation than previously anticipated of the negative effects of the United Kingdom’s decision to leave the European Union,” the IMF said. “Though highly uncertain, medium-term growth prospects have also diminished in the aftermath of the Brexit vote because of the expected increase in barriers to trade and migration, as well as a potential downsizing of the financial services sector amid possible barriers to cross-border financial activity.”

I've already pointed out how misleading annual GDP growth and unemployment figures are.

But surely building more homes...dilutes the market...thereby reducing the value and as such meaning that investing in property wouldn't be a good idea?

 


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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 21 Apr 17 3.39pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by serial thriller

The last time we focused largescale investment in to a debt-heavy economy was under Labour post-war. It saw two decades of economic prosperity follow. A similar stimulation is needed now, because with productivity so low but employment levels relatively high, it's tough to see how else the economy will start to grow.

but wasn't that on the back of the fiscal prudence of the Tories beforehand?

 


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Stirlingsays Flag 21 Apr 17 3.39pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Indeed, but the question really is why isn't it, because those who benefit from the system, find that exploitation is beneficial to them - and its easier to exploit people if they're dependent on you, and in fear of their livehoods and economic stability.

The problems of morality, is that people are not moral, part of the role of state has to be to regulate and control, in order to limit the extent of exploitation, and ensure the well being of all of its people - not just those who they identify with.

The problem with capitalism is the same as with socialism, you can't rely on people to make the moral decision to 'do right' over their own self benefit and interest.

That has to be what the state is there for.


Edited by jamiemartin721 (21 Apr 2017 2.49pm)

Totally agree.

It's where I differ from many on the right who regard the state as an evil or incompetent actor in many situations...but no doubt are quick to call the Police or call an ambulance when needed.

The state should always look to treat everyone equally and fairly....that's both popular and unpopular groups, intelligent or thick. On the other hand it should proportionally seek to protect itself from those wishing it harm.

Encourage the talented but ensure that exploitation is disencouraged where it can be. I have no doubt that the left are better at this....The Tories know that many of their supporters just couldn't give a damn about anything other than 'I'm alright Jack'. That isn't the kind of conservationism I sign up to anyway.


Though....I object to attempts at encouraging good behaviour like the 'hate speech' laws......It's an example of good intention over-reach.

We have May to thank for that annoyance.


Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Apr 2017 3.41pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 3.40pm

Originally posted by Lyons550

You do realise that 'estimated' doesn't mean 'fact'...don't you?

2 schools have been on strike in Greenwich this week over teacher and support staff cuts. It is a reality.

 

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 21 Apr 17 3.42pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Has anyone changed their voting intentions based upon the previous pages of this thread?

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 21 Apr 17 3.42pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle


I'm undecided. I like my local MP who is a Labour MP and she's not a Corbyn supporter. I think Corbyn is a liability. But in terms of why you shouldn't vote Tory that's easy. I've given lots of evidence already in this thread, most of which has come directly from OECD or ONS so is reliable. Their record on the economy and delivery of public services is appalling. Positive GDP growth and low official unemployment are such misleading indicators when considered in isolation. Productivity is low and inequality high. Public debt has increased massively, but more concerning is that private debt is getting back towards pre-GFC levels. The positive GDP numbers are driven by consumer spending and consumer debt, not investment or increases in productivity. The balance of payments is also a drain on the economy and selling off swathes of assets to foreign interest will only make this worse, something which started under New Labour but has increased apace since 2010 and increased massively since 23 June due to the falling value of the pound.

In my opinion one of the biggest structural issues for the economy is inequality, and the tax policies of this government have been so iniquitous that this is getting worse. If you want an interesting and compelling argument as to the problems associated with the kind of inequality prevalent in the UK today (which are predicted to get worse) read this: [Link]

Stiglitz is a world expert on this subject and has a Nobel Prize in economics and explains it far better than I could.

Austerity has been a disaster. If you want to understand why austerity is both theoretically and empirically the wrong thing to do, especially in a downturn then read "End this depression now" by Paul Krugman, another Nobel Laureate.

QE is another massive Elephant in the room. It's been totally misused by the Tories and they will not countenance using it properly as it would be against their "austerity at all costs" ideology. Richard Murphy has written more words about tax theory and policy than anyone else so I'd recommend just sticking his name and QE into google to read about his thoughts, however a couple of quotes here:

"QE will pump money into the economy, but the reality is that the vast majority that will go into speculative activity, will support financial trading, will boost bankers’ bonuses, and will preserve the integrity of bank balance sheets, which is, however, an objective that could be much better achieved by the government taking direct stakes in their share capital instead using the same money. To put it another way, QE is an extremely blunt instrument to achieve a goal that has very little direct benefit to most in the UK."

Labour have a policy to launch a national investment bank. Here was Richard Murphy back in July last year: "In this alternative form of QE the money created by the Bank of England is provided to a National Investment Bank to inject into the real economy. In other words, it funds new investment. In the short term that could be infrastructure repairs. It could also be investment support to businesses. That investment in business can either be in equity capital or by way of loans. In this way the risk that the money will be used to fund speculation and not to promote real economic activities is avoided: the banks as middlemen are cut out.

This is precisely what our economy needs now. In the aftermath of the referendum vote, with all the uncertainty that is faced, the British economy needs a direct injection of cash to ensure that it has the capital it needs to continue to create the jobs that the people of this country deserve to make the goods and services that we require and which we must export to continue to provide a solid foundation for our future. At this time only the government can provide this, and QE provides the mechanism to do so."

I could go on.

..but isn't that like blaming the cleaner for the state the oiks have left the place in after having had a party?

 


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DanH Flag SW2 21 Apr 17 3.44pm Send a Private Message to DanH Add DanH as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

Has anyone changed their voting intentions based upon the previous pages of this thread?

Has anyone changed their opinion on anything ever because of an internet debate?

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 21 Apr 17 3.45pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550

But surely building more homes...dilutes the market...thereby reducing the value and as such meaning that investing in property wouldn't be a good idea?

A property price crash is essential so that the younger generation will be able to buy homes and have a future.

 

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Part Time James Flag 21 Apr 17 3.45pm Send a Private Message to Part Time James Add Part Time James as a friend

Originally posted by matt_himself

Has anyone changed their voting intentions based upon the previous pages of this thread?

Actually, there was a post that I think was on this thread quite early on that did make me change my mind. It's unusual but yes. I went on a hunt for it yesterday and couldn't find it. I had in my mind it was something Hrolf posted within the first 2 or 3 pages, but I may have dreamt it.

 




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