Fault for what?

Trying to stem the flow of illegal immigration has been a thorny problem for a long time. Marking borders with fences and erecting physical barriers in pinch points has been attempted.

It’s not Trump’s fault the problem exists. It is his fault that he wasted so much money on a solution that was only ever a political gesture which, as the referenced article says, has had many other detrimental impacts.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

There needs to be a policy and a plan. Part of that will be ensuring the border is marked, respected and inspected. Whether that needs to be a barrier in some places is down to local knowledge. Whether it needs to be electronic surveillance and rapid response in others is something that seems a reasonable question.

Alongside that though is the overriding need to reduce the flow both by encouraging people to want to stay in their homes and allowing routes for legal migration when it makes sense to do so.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

What amused me the most about immigration was when Theresa May said that working to improve the standard of living in Africa would encourage less immigration.

Douglas Murray pointed out that all that would mean was that you increased the numbers of Africans wealthy enough to afford passage to the west.

Is Theresa May thick? I don't think she is....but I think she represents a major truth about the Tory leadership. They just aren't real conservatives and in reality are neo and social liberals who like nice houses and cheap plumbers. They bought into all the egalitarian stuff and so have ensured the destruction of what we were.

They sold out the nation after Thatcher....in fact they were going that way before Thatcher...slowly from the fifties....but she was a temporary stay of conservative execution for a while.

It isn't that the Theresa May types are thick, it's just that they don't actually like actual conservativism.....paradoxically they wanted to change it ('the nasty party') and did.

A conservative conserves.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Oh for the Trump years.

There were no new wars but only talk of ending involvement from Trump. All during which the media constantly said we were on the cusp of WW3 because of tweets!

Contrast this to the Biden era where the media downplays fears on WW3 during constant new wars Biden has got involved with. The media now often talking up constant escalation and continuation of them while living standards suffer.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 Oct 2023 12.58pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

The trouble is that the proud boys are labelled as a terror organisation I think.
As with racism, misogamy and ironically anti semitism amongst many more; there is no scale of seriousness. Burn a black man or call him a racist name it’s the same thing. Wolf whistle a woman or abuse her it’s the same thing, etc. this is the society that has been created. The woke society so to the letter of the law she’s probably correct sadly.
Morally and obviously not but the wording alters that.

Most migrants to the UK come from India. A country with a population of over 1.4bn. How do you suggest we give them no reason to leave?