There is a big gap between Antifa, other far left groups and 'normal people' just like there is a big difference between neo nazis and normal people with concerns about disproportionate criminality, over population and multi culturalism.

Yep, but then antifa themselves are a tiny group - most of those protesters turning up aren't going to be members of antifa - They're going to more likely be affiliated with liberal movements, civil rights groups etc.

Bit like the old Anti-Nazi league - Most of the people turning up weren't far left at all. Groups like the SWP and Militant were involved as a means to trying to recruit from other groups, by bringing them togeather (its a very left wing thing).

In the US, maybe larger than here. Its important to remember that in the US Prison Gangs and Organised crime networks, the far right are very well represented and its a network that spreads out from criminal organisations into other organisations such as militias and similar groups.

Its important to remember that in the US the political system is really about two right wing parties. The Democrats are probably comparable to David Cameron's Conservative Party (on the right) to the Labour Party whilst the Republican moderates wouldn't have been out of place among the traditional conservatives to the far right.

Even the very left wing elements of the democrats like Saunders probably have more in common with the Liberal Democrats than say the SWP etc.

There are senators and representatives of congress, who would be more comparable to Nick Griffen, rather than Nigel Farage.

Thatcher was pretty conservative and had some very strong conservatives in her cabinet, but most of them would have been moderates in the Republican party (Thatcher herself voted to legalise homosexuality and even the Clause 28 falls in the more moderate wing of Republicanism - I might not have liked her politics but she could be quite pragmatic - her response to the threat of HIV and AIDS has resulted in a very low level of infection rate in the UK compared to the US (Needle exchange programs, promotion of contraception and barrier methods, and education programs aimed at high risk groups).

Politics need more of that kind of pragmatism over ideals. Especially in the US, where reasonableness and factual based policy seems to have become something of an increasing impossibility.

Arguably, the failure of successive US governments to do anything about the poor and working classes in the US has created a situation where a statue becomes a flash point in race, rather than say employment, health care, education and pay in deprived areas.

The problems of Detroit aren't really based in race, its the product of the migration of the motor industry in pursuit of greater profits.

In truth this is what the job of real governance should be about... delivering pragmatic solutions to increase living standards generally regardless of what description they apply to themselves.

Of course it's fun to proceed along the knockabout of attacking what you don't like in politics but essentially no one ever achieved anything by attacking opponents. Compromise and hard nosed agreements are how real progress is achieved......Alexander only achieved total victory by leveling opponents and unless genocide is your game then accommodation has to be reached....thankfully we don't accept genocide as a possible solution nowadays.

Still....none of us on this forum can achieve a hill of beans in terms of our politics....So perhaps there is value in ranting as a way of letting off steam save the serious stuff for those that actually want to engage in it.

Trump has turned this on its head for now...but he's a one off and after him things will revert back to their usual....hopefully less polarised and hysterical times.

Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Aug 2017 5.00pm)

Yep, you're right....but that should be what they are there for and what they should be viewing their job as.

Personally I rate politicians as far less useful than technology advancements to improving society.....Often then worsen things rather than advance them.