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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Stirlingsays  26 Dec 23 8.25pm |
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This is a maths professor that I've followed for many years because....well he's very good at what he teaches. He's on the left but not the 'establishment' left and has been very critical of this war and how it came about since it started. People on our side only get fed the establishment line, which....like our poster's response, is designed to argue for how we got here as the best outcome. If you believe that I just don't know what to say to you. Anyway, here is the professor's video in response to his opinion on this war.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Dec 23 10.14pm |
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Originally posted by Helmet46
Thats the only thing you’ve ever written that I agree with.
Thanks for that but surely there might have been the odd comment before? In Palace Talk perhaps on how we played?
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 26 Dec 23 10.30pm |
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Did the cold war ever go away? If I were to be facetious I guess Afghanistan and Syria were much of the answer. Ukraine is an obvious yet avoidable part of that. Yet, there is in my belief an undesired Russian overreach here. Do something without the actual military prowess and this happens.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Helmet46 Croydon 26 Dec 23 10.30pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Thanks for that but surely there might have been the odd comment before? In Palace Talk perhaps on how we played? lol - yeah fair point. I meant on the news chat!
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Dec 23 10.34pm |
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The views expressed in the “professor’s”:video are very familiar and duplicate what has repeatedly been posted here. As it’s the same line it doesn’t require detailed refutation. He approaches the issue from a completely different perspective than those actually taking the decisions and seems to me to be a committed pacifist and appeaser. I am sure he is sincere but I can also see why he has been removed from mainstream social media platforms. He claims not to be an apologist for Putin but his words tell another story.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 26 Dec 23 11.10pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Did the cold war ever go away? If I were to be facetious I guess Afghanistan and Syria were much of the answer. Ukraine is an obvious yet avoidable part of that. Yet, there is in my belief an undesired Russian overreach here. Do something without the actual military prowess and this happens. I think the Russians have a right to protect the ethnic Russians in East and South Ukraine from what was happening to them. Also the removal of the elected government in 2014 and US involvement in that was obviously very counter to their interests. However, did that extend to going to war? No, not in my view. I believe that Russia have a lot of valid points when it comes to US state policy however it's also a matter of the pot calling the kettle black. That said, we see the same behaviour here as we saw with covid. Huge pressure from establishment to censor on any alternative opinions on its policy. Even though those opinions were very common before the war. We have had many lies pumped out like 'Russia's running out of ammo', 'Russia's economy is destroyed', 'Putin's dying' and so on. I react against my side lying because I hold to a different standard where I object to lies for political purposes. No difference at all between them and Russia, yet they claim to be different. Those shills support a simplistic goodies v baddies narrative because Putin = bad.....when the reality is that this is very much a 'baddies v baddies' reality that we shouldn't be tainted with. Same as with the Israeli/Hamas ethnic cleansing event. I look at what the benefits v negatives are and the risk/gain out of this war. In that sense we have the lions led by donkeys with hyenas cheering for the donkeys. It's always the European man in the street who will have to pay for these decisions.....there won't be any accountability because hyenas own the megaphone. And most people will support every policy that harms us because the paid media present it within a moral frame and then complain about their standard of living without even connecting the dots. Orban is the only elected head of state in Europe who actually cares about his country as a cohesive state that's resembles its history and has the same view the future of the Europeans is only good if they do the same. He had the right take on this war from the beginning and its outcomes are proving that obvious prediction correct. They are trying to undermine and destroy him the same as they do to any figure who opposes them....same as what their ideological colleagues are trying to do with Trump and Musk.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Dec 23 9.39am |
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I think every country has a duty to protect all its citizens, whatever their ethnicity, and that no other country should directly interfere in that in any way. Should abuses occur then international condemnation and sanctions are the way to rectify them. If you live in a country your loyalty should be to that country. We expect that here, so the same applies elsewhere. No compromises. If you cannot accept that then you must leave. The reason the government fell in 2014 was that the then President refused to sign an order overwhelmingly passed by the parliament which was seeking stronger ties with the EU. He did so in response to pressure from Russia with whom he was closely associated and to where he fled when things kicked off. Russia then occupied Crimea and encouraged the ethnic Russians in the east. It was the precursor to today and all part of the same basic issue of Putin’s Russia not accepting the collapse of the USSR. That the USA and the EU offered verbal support and encouragement to the Ukrainian people in their desire for self determination is clearly true but they weren’t the cause. That lies in Moscow. I don’t detect any pressure by government to censor any alternative views. Search and you can find them being freely expressed at the time, just as they can be with Covid. What’s actually true is that those arguments lost to better arguments, and not that the arguments were silenced. The “paid” media!!! Who pays the media? Murdoch and Harmsworth? To then champion Orban as a hero when his government above all others in the EU does actually suppress opposition comment and has reduced public broadcasting to a government propaganda machine, ought to be a joke, but sadly isn’t. Trump is a danger to democracy. Musk seems intent on destroying his own business.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| snytaxx London 27 Dec 23 6.17pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Poking the bear. Firstly, hope you had a very enjoyable Christmas Secondly, I think I pointed this out earlier on this thread but cant remember if a got a reply (i might have just missed it if I did so apologies in advance). However, this 'poking the bear' narrative is unfortunately complete nonsense when applied to the reality of international relations. The Russian narrative in order to cover for what is an appalling act of colonial aggression is to play the victim card, 'I was provoked', 'I had not choice' etc however the arguement doesnt really stack for two reasons. Firstly, if it was any other country that was being provoked, espiecally a Western country, we would argue that country at least tries to conduct themselves in a way which follows international law and convention, key example would likely be Iraq which I think we can all agree is probably the most overt example of western 'agression' and intervention we have witnessed in modern times. Even at it's most questionable, history shows that the coalition at least tried to go down a diplomatic route first. Did Russia try and do this? Indeed they actually spent 4 months gas lighting the 'hysterical' West they would never invade, only to invade. Yet we seem to just let Russia off as 'the bear was poked'. Guess thats fine then! Secondly, what was it that 'poked the bear'? Ah yes the infamous Nato claim (refering to the previous post you were responding to). Odd that Ukraine actually asked to join Nato in 2008 and Russia didn't feel any need to invade Ukraine then. I guess it took a long time for the bear to feel poked! Even stranger that the bear would feel poked given the bear itself actually asked to join NATO, but didn't want to 'wait in line' with the plebs.
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| Stirlingsays 28 Dec 23 4.11am |
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There's just a refusal to accept reality. Once reality finally comes to you just don't blame me. I was pointing out these realities at the near start and arguing for better outcomes than what Ukraine will get and the prior March 21 documentation that Russia had agreed to will prove it. There are an awful lot of people dead now who would still be living. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Dec 2023 4.13am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 28 Dec 23 5.01am |
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The final US aid package allotment has been agreed to Ukraine, Any future aid has to receive congressional approval, which is not as forthright as in the past. 250 million dollars are part of the package and includes additional ammunition for NASAMS; Right now Ukraine is on a war economy and needs 37 billion just to pay its public sector let alone spend on military. The unreality and all or nothing policy is the exact opposite of common sense as the Republicans are intrinsically more isolationist and less neo con so once the Ukrainian counter offensive failed in its objectives (which was always likely) the same level of support was always going to be hard. The Ukrainians....might...might get enough to just cover expenses this year....I'd put it at fifty fifty depending on how far Biden caves on border policy and how much the Republicans believe him..... but I don't see the level of support they would need to ever gain back lost regions. They can talk about mobilising half a million but who is paying those wages and equipping those conscripts? These are gamblers and chancers. The problem with leaders who go all in and don't play the percentages is that failure is far more of a disaster than would have been the case. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Dec 2023 5.20am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 29 Dec 23 6.02pm |
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I wonder if this means the Biden administration has decided not to cave to the GOP on border policy and hence Ukraine aren't going to get their sixty billion. If Ukraine don't get at least around 40 billion this year they will collapse. This was the burden taken on. We know that the Americans have been looking for negotiations with Russia and are frustrated with Zelensky and I'm hearing that backing is being transferred to options more likely to negotiate. [Tweet Link]
Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Dec 2023 6.04pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jan 24 5.02pm |
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Regardless of whether Ukraine get more aid or not this is going to be a difficult year for them due to production levels between Russia and even the west.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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