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serial thriller The Promised Land 13 Apr 20 12.05pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
The left eating their own is a quite apt and the truth it appears. Yup. The basic summary of these leaks is that there were many in the party - including those at the highest echelons - who wanted the Tories to win in 2017.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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Matov 13 Apr 20 12.18pm | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
I wish the guy the best. I really do. But his choice for general sec of the labour party was someone called Emily Oldknow.
Starmer is right up to his neck in the brown stuff now although perhaps it is for the best that this s*** comes out now. He has the best part of 4 years plus before having to fight another GE so if there needs to be major blood-letting, then now is the time to get it out of the way. Question for Labour though is if it actually survives because the divisions exposed in this report, if true, appear to be irreparable. And I suspect it is going to get much worse before it gets better.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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the.universal 13 Apr 20 1.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
Having read some of the text conversations she seemingly took part in, then her position must be untenable. Starmer is right up to his neck in the brown stuff now although perhaps it is for the best that this s*** comes out now. He has the best part of 4 years plus before having to fight another GE so if there needs to be major blood-letting, then now is the time to get it out of the way. Question for Labour though is if it actually survives because the divisions exposed in this report, if true, appear to be irreparable. And I suspect it is going to get much worse before it gets better. I really think you’re talking this up to be something it’s not. It’s common knowledge the majority of Labour MPs and long time members didn’t like Corbyn. Much like most of the electorate. Hardly surprising that these sort of conversations took place.
Vive le Roy! |
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Matov 13 Apr 20 1.56pm | |
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Originally posted by the.universal
I really think you’re talking this up to be something it’s not. It’s common knowledge the majority of Labour MPs and long time members didn’t like Corbyn. Much like most of the electorate. Hardly surprising that these sort of conversations took place. These were senior people. People involved in running Labours campaign. Corbyn won his leadership fair and square based on the rules. They should have been pulling in the same direction. Now I have nothing but scorn for all parties concerned but this report is shocking. An utter disgrace, if true.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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serial thriller The Promised Land 13 Apr 20 3.39pm | |
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Again unsurprising, and I understand that Coronavirus is dominating the news agenda, but... How is their not a single mention of this story on the BBC or the majority of the mainstream media? Not even a single tweet from a BBC political journalist? Labour HQ were essentially working for a Tory win in the 2017 election. Surely that warrants at least a passing reference?
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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the.universal 13 Apr 20 7.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
These were senior people. People involved in running Labours campaign. Corbyn won his leadership fair and square based on the rules. They should have been pulling in the same direction. Now I have nothing but scorn for all parties concerned but this report is shocking. An utter disgrace, if true. Arguably it’s increasingly a leader’s job to galvanise their troops rather than relying on old fashioned hierarchy structures.
Vive le Roy! |
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Matov 13 Apr 20 8.20pm | |
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Originally posted by the.universal
Arguably it’s increasingly a leader’s job to galvanise their troops rather than relying on old fashioned hierarchy structures. If you want to run any organisation, you require a hierarchy structure. Nothing old fashioned about that, just the way of the world. Labour really have no logical reason for existing anymore. Saw some polling recently in which members were asked what of the following three statements should best represent Labour. 1. Getting rid of Capitalism and replacing it them with a fair economic system. 2. Representing and standing up for working-class people and their values. 3. Building a society which is fair for everyone whatever their background, gender, race or sexuality. And the results were. 1. 20% 2. 12% 3. 67% ( I would guess the other 1% ticked the 'other' box) Now the third option is clearly all lovely and cuddly but it is also not what the Labour Party were founded for and shows an incredible lack of understanding of the parties history. Only 12% get that. They are f***ed. They really are. With the biggest irony of this current s*** storm being that they are arguing about the result of the 2017 election rather than the 2019 one. Much more comfortable going over what might have been rather than what actually was. Heads in the sand does not even come close.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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the.universal 14 Apr 20 12.13am | |
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Originally posted by Matov
If you want to run any organisation, you require a hierarchy structure. Nothing old fashioned about that, just the way of the world. Labour really have no logical reason for existing anymore. Saw some polling recently in which members were asked what of the following three statements should best represent Labour. 1. Getting rid of Capitalism and replacing it them with a fair economic system. 2. Representing and standing up for working-class people and their values. 3. Building a society which is fair for everyone whatever their background, gender, race or sexuality. And the results were. 1. 20% 2. 12% 3. 67% ( I would guess the other 1% ticked the 'other' box) Now the third option is clearly all lovely and cuddly but it is also not what the Labour Party were founded for and shows an incredible lack of understanding of the parties history. Only 12% get that. They are f***ed. They really are. With the biggest irony of this current s*** storm being that they are arguing about the result of the 2017 election rather than the 2019 one. Much more comfortable going over what might have been rather than what actually was. Heads in the sand does not even come close. Things evolve and move on, maybe that’s what’s happening here. Maybe they are fcuked, maybe not, who knows.
Vive le Roy! |
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Badger11 Beckenham 14 Apr 20 7.09am | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Again unsurprising, and I understand that Coronavirus is dominating the news agenda, but... How is their not a single mention of this story on the BBC or the majority of the mainstream media? Not even a single tweet from a BBC political journalist? Labour HQ were essentially working for a Tory win in the 2017 election. Surely that warrants at least a passing reference? The BBC publishes an alternate view of the report. ""But the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism, which reported Labour to the EHRC, said the report "serves as an exhibit of the party's failure to address the crisis" and should be handed over to the watchdog. The organisation's chief executive, Gideon Falter, said: "In the dying days of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, the Labour Party appears to have invested in a desperate last-ditch attempt to deflect and discredit allegations of anti-Semitism. "Rather than properly dealing with cases of anti-Semitism and the culture of anti-Jewish racism that prevailed during Mr Corbyn's tenure, the party has instead busied itself trawling through 10,000 of its own officials' e-mails and WhatsApp messages in an attempt to imagine a vast anti-Corbyn conspiracy and to continue its effort to smear whistleblowers.""
One more point |
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serial thriller The Promised Land 14 Apr 20 12.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
The BBC publishes an alternate view of the report. ""But the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism, which reported Labour to the EHRC, said the report "serves as an exhibit of the party's failure to address the crisis" and should be handed over to the watchdog. The organisation's chief executive, Gideon Falter, said: "In the dying days of Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, the Labour Party appears to have invested in a desperate last-ditch attempt to deflect and discredit allegations of anti-Semitism. "Rather than properly dealing with cases of anti-Semitism and the culture of anti-Jewish racism that prevailed during Mr Corbyn's tenure, the party has instead busied itself trawling through 10,000 of its own officials' e-mails and WhatsApp messages in an attempt to imagine a vast anti-Corbyn conspiracy and to continue its effort to smear whistleblowers."" Maybe now it's safe to talk about the politics of a group like Campaign Against Anti-Semitism. These documents seem to suggest that senior members in the Labour party weaponised the issue of anti-semitism as a means of discrediting Corbyn. One example, of many in the report, shows a Labour staff pressuring Tom Watson to interfere in Ken Livingstone's anti-semitism case and weaken the sentence in order to produce bad coverage for the party. If you were serious about fighting anti-semitism, how would you react to that? Surely you would be incredibly worried that non-Jewish people are using anti-semitism as a political football? But instead we get a statement which seems to defend the people who were doing so (many of the whistleblowers in the Panorama documentary are key figures in the report) while staying silent on the multiple cases of cover up that appear to have been raised. The whole thing is toxic.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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cryrst The garden of England 14 Apr 20 12.35pm | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Maybe now it's safe to talk about the politics of a group like Campaign Against Anti-Semitism. These documents seem to suggest that senior members in the Labour party weaponised the issue of anti-semitism as a means of discrediting Corbyn. One example, of many in the report, shows a Labour staff pressuring Tom Watson to interfere in Ken Livingstone's anti-semitism case and weaken the sentence in order to produce bad coverage for the party. If you were serious about fighting anti-semitism, how would you react to that? Surely you would be incredibly worried that non-Jewish people are using anti-semitism as a political football? But instead we get a statement which seems to defend the people who were doing so (many of the whistleblowers in the Panorama documentary are key figures in the report) while staying silent on the multiple cases of cover up that appear to have been raised. The whole thing is toxic. A cover up seems the norm on a few important matters!
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jeeagles 14 Apr 20 1.32pm | |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Again unsurprising, and I understand that Coronavirus is dominating the news agenda, but... How is their not a single mention of this story on the BBC or the majority of the mainstream media? Not even a single tweet from a BBC political journalist? Labour HQ were essentially working for a Tory win in the 2017 election. Surely that warrants at least a passing reference? Possibly getting legal teams to look at it before they report it? It shows the essential problem with Corbyn and his supporters. - If he hadn't have been leader, remain would have probably won the referendum. It was just impossible to move him, you'd just get shouted down by his idiotic supporters. I'm so glad they've moved these deluded people from oposition. Labour's worst result since Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, and Starlin were European leaders.
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