Having started this thread I am not sure I have commented again. Seemed rude. However, the following on the current charges.

I hate Trump. I make no bones about it. I would like to see him behind bars purely because I think he is a c**t. However, that is not a crime.

With sizeable regret, I can't help feeling some sympathy for the argument that the current charges are, at least in part, politically motivated. Understatement?

The Stormy Daniels charges are utter bollox. How a prosecuting authority can genuinely hope to get this over the line with proper regard to the rule of law and a genuinely impartial jury is anyone's guess.

The vote rigging thing perhaps, but it is current process is it not? They all do it and a blind eye is USUALLY shown. Dubya stole his election through his Florida connections in a way that was obvious and open and kindly overlooked. Why this time a prosecution?

The only one that holds any water is the confidential files at home. This is particularly if there were names in the secret files that were put at risk. However, if there were not, then I bet Clinton, both Bushes and Biden (up until the prosecution) all took work home with them in homes that are nigh on impregnable fortresses.

Does the establishment not realize that this is further polarizing that nation along pre-existing lines; and actually emboldening Trump supporters.

It’s not either his supporters or his opponents who matter. Their votes are secure whatever happens.

It’s the floating voters, the independents, who will decide the 2024 vote. If they can be convinced Trump is a victim and allow the memories of his behaviour to fade, he could win. Heaven help us all. If they don’t buy that, whether he is convicted or not, he won’t.

These latest charges are the most important because they are at State, not Federal, level. This matters because he cannot pardon himself of a State level crime. The major charge carries a minimum sentence of 5 years in jail. No discretion.

Yeah, so it's essentially a bit of a gamble, predominantly revolving around the usual reputation sabotages or possible legal matters, as opposed to anything based in political substance.

Either the Dems secure a conviction of complete demonisation of Trump, which I doubt, and that at least mitigates one threat. Or, or, they look rather silly, paint Trump as more 'saviour-like' to anyone who might bite on that particular bait and heaven forbid their own puppet gets thrown to the lions as they desperately try to salvage their own reputation. Not that any of them would care of course.

I'd still question to what extent this has anything to do with identifying the most competent leader to head the most competent administration for the US.

I find it genuinely bizarre when either the majority or all debate is around 'your guy is worse than my guy' as opposed to 'what's best for the country/who will deliver that?'. I know, I know, 'it's politics' and pretty much the same everywhere but America really does sit top of the pile on that. Semi-interesting I suppose...

Comments are being made on the Farage/Coutts thread about the indictments being laid against Trump, which are diversionary, so my own comments will be made here, which seems the appropriate place.

The idea that these charges are politically motivated seems to have become so firmly rooted in some minds that they are now regarded as the obvious, unquestionable truth. I think this is risible. The reverse is true.

To not charge him would mean that politics have interfered in the rule of law and resulted in a different standard being applied to different people. Everyone should be held to the same standards. We must all be treated equally under the law. Democracy demands nothing less.

The idea that other Presidents have also committed crimes but been allowed to escape justice is also risible.

As with the rest of us some minor offences, sometimes carried out unknowingly, deserve a warning or just advice. In other cases there are even different opinions on whether an offence has occurred.

The Trump situation is unprecedented. Not just because he is the first former President to be indicted in this way but because of what happened in plain view.

That claims the election was stolen were made cannot be disputed. That no evidence has been found to support that is also indisputable. That Trump tried to pressurise Pence into not certifying the results is on record. That the Capital was stormed was seen by us all.

These events are completely unprecedented. So it’s hardly a surprise that unprecedented charges have followed.

They are only charges. They must now be proved. A full opportunity to present whatever defence is decided will be available, including that a former President is above the law, if it can be sustained.

The danger comes if these cases end up being referred to the Supreme Court and guilty verdicts get overturned by politically appointed Justices. This is the real arena in which political interference in justice could be witnessed and if it could well spark major problems.

There is also the danger of Trump pardoning himself if he somehow wins next year, but as I think that is very unlikely I am less concerned about it.

The other allegation being made is that the timing of the charges has been calculated to interfere with the election timetable. This is also untrue. The timing of such things is not in the hands of politicians. It’s in the hands of the justice system which exists completely separately, despite the cynicism of some.

I have always said that patience is needed. Gathering evidence is a slow process and preparing a case even slower. Convincing witnesses to cooperate takes time. Reassuring them about the provision of any necessary protection and establishing it takes longer. With so many involved I am impressed it’s already being done. This is without any sight of charges relating to the 2016 election which remain under wraps. Maybe the current ones will be deemed sufficient.

It is crystal clear that the moves against Trump are politically motivated, as were Coutts moves against Farage.