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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 5.08pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The policy gymnastics of the left are very entertaining. A little while ago their standard response to a UK terrorist attack was to say it is very rare, more people die from eating peanuts etc and these minor difficulties are worth it to have a choice of foreign food restaurants. But now we are all going to be murdered in our beds because it takes a whole 8 minutes for the half a dozen policemen that we have left after Tory cuts, to deal with three fascists. All of which are very true, and important to remember, when we're demanding absurdly draconian reaction and suppression of individuals liberties. Sometimes it reminds me of the reactionary hysteria over child sex abductions, which lead to people trusting their kids with family and friends - which represent the most significant abusers and murderers of children in society (thus increasing the number of children being sexually abused and killed). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jun 17 5.08pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The policy gymnastics of the left are very entertaining. A little while ago their standard response to a UK terrorist attack was to say it is very rare, more people die from eating peanuts etc and these minor difficulties are worth it to have a choice of foreign food restaurants.
But now we are all going to be murdered in our beds because it takes a whole 8 minutes for the half a dozen policemen that we have left after Tory cuts, to deal with three fascists.

All of which are very true, and important to remember, when we're demanding absurdly draconian reaction and suppression of individuals liberties. Sometimes it reminds me of the reactionary hysteria over child sex abductions, which lead to people trusting their kids with family and friends - which represent the most significant abusers and murderers of children in society (thus increasing the number of children being sexually abused and killed).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jun 17 5.11pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You and I know exactly what you are doing. It is nice to believe that you can out think people who have the bigger picture and experience of circumstances but that is by and large just a conceit. Foreign policy doesn't always go well and it certainly doesn't avoid unforeseen circumstances or side effects. These domestic attacks might well bring a change of policy and I'm sure we all agree that the quicker we take decisive steps to protect our citizens the better. Sorry but that is just bullsh1t appeasement talk. We have known the Saudis have been exporting Wahhabism for decades. "Enough is enough" says Theresa. So, she must be hatching a policy to rid us of Saudi influence in the UK once and for all. For what else is there for her to do to mean what she say's that isn't just going to be waffle and side-tracking? Or...the status quo will ensue and they will be treated like friends still whilst hiding out in the open undermining the very fabric of our, and others, society. I know which one my dosh is on. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 05 Jun 17 5.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You and I know exactly what you are doing.

It is nice to believe that you can out think people who have the bigger picture and experience of circumstances but that is by and large just a conceit. Foreign policy doesn't always go well and it certainly doesn't avoid unforeseen circumstances or side effects.
These domestic attacks might well bring a change of policy and I'm sure we all agree that the quicker we take decisive steps to protect our citizens the better.

Sorry but that is just bullsh1t appeasement talk. We have known the Saudis have been exporting Wahhabism for decades. "Enough is enough" says Theresa. So, she must be hatching a policy to rid us of Saudi influence in the UK once and for all. For what else is there for her to do to mean what she say's that isn't just going to be waffle and side-tracking?

Or...the status quo will ensue and they will be treated like friends still whilst hiding out in the open undermining the very fabric of our, and others, society.

I know which one my dosh is on.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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europalace Europe 05 Jun 17 5.13pm
Originally posted by NKEagle So, short of inventing a time machine, going back to at least before w w I and refraining from any interference whatsoever, what should we do now to prevent future attacks? Everything you've posted so far has gone to the motivations of the attackers. But what would you propose to do going forward to keep ourselves safe ? Well, the genie is out of the bottle unfortunately. First thing would be to pull out of foreign war zones. That can't happen overnight of course and even after that, the issues will continue for some time, maybe at least for another generation until those involved in these incidents are flushed out of their own societies naturally. There's isn't a fix-all solution in my opinion, just have to do the best in a bad situation. however, continuing as it is will only make things worse and give ammo and time for something much more substantial to take effect. Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.13pm)
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europalace

Europe 05 Jun 17 5.13pm

Originally posted by NKEagle

So, short of inventing a time machine, going back to at least before w w I and refraining from any interference whatsoever, what should we do now to prevent future attacks? Everything you've posted so far has gone to the motivations of the attackers. But what would you propose to do going forward to keep ourselves safe ?

Well, the genie is out of the bottle unfortunately. First thing would be to pull out of foreign war zones. That can't happen overnight of course and even after that, the issues will continue for some time, maybe at least for another generation until those involved in these incidents are flushed out of their own societies naturally. There's isn't a fix-all solution in my opinion, just have to do the best in a bad situation. however, continuing as it is will only make things worse and give ammo and time for something much more substantial to take effect.

Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.13pm)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 5.14pm
Originally posted by dannyh Oh I see, and Corbyn is the better option to defeat IS how exactly ? No one you vote for next week is going to defeat IS, same way that no one really defeated Al-Qaeda, and they won't defeat the next one. These things don't really get defeated, they're not a real organisation, they're more like a brand that localised groups 'take the name of' and occasionally get funds and resources through. As long as the ideas and grievences that spawn potential recruits, you're going to have Islamic extremists, and whilst the Middle East is ruled by despots and dictators, you're going to have Islamist movements. Nothing we vote for next week will change that. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jun 17 5.14pm

Originally posted by dannyh

Oh I see, and Corbyn is the better option to defeat IS how exactly ?

No one you vote for next week is going to defeat IS, same way that no one really defeated Al-Qaeda, and they won't defeat the next one.

These things don't really get defeated, they're not a real organisation, they're more like a brand that localised groups 'take the name of' and occasionally get funds and resources through.

As long as the ideas and grievences that spawn potential recruits, you're going to have Islamic extremists, and whilst the Middle East is ruled by despots and dictators, you're going to have Islamist movements.

Nothing we vote for next week will change that.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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europalace Europe 05 Jun 17 5.15pm
Originally posted by elgrande I asked you the other day,and you didn't reply. Our foreign policy does that include having a RAF Base on Malta,during the second world war. I do believe that they all got medals for defending your island. Sorry to disappoint you but it isn't 'my' island. Here for a few years. We always move on after 6-7 years.
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europalace

Europe 05 Jun 17 5.15pm

Originally posted by elgrande

I asked you the other day,and you didn't reply.

Our foreign policy does that include having a RAF Base on Malta,during the second world war.
I do believe that they all got medals for defending your island.

Sorry to disappoint you but it isn't 'my' island. Here for a few years. We always move on after 6-7 years.

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NKEagle Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 5.18pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays What Churchill said about Islam in the middle east wasn't very politically correct.....But it certainly hit the nail on the head. Only the reformists can show the future for Islam in the UK. Unfortunately because of the voices of those who fight against any change we have to watch plenty more of our children and adults get blown up and/or mangled by vans and/or knifed before anything actually effective is done about it. If it even is. Apparently in 2006 intelligence given to Cameron stated that approximately 200 people are planning attacks in this country at any one time. There were roughly a million less Muslims here ten years ago. We have great security services here.....despite their methods regularly being leaked onto the Internet. Still, I don't blame anyone for worrying about this....It's a small but realistic concern. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jun 2017 2.02pm) Very "nail-on-head" statements often aren't!
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NKEagle

Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 5.18pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

What Churchill said about Islam in the middle east wasn't very politically correct.....But it certainly hit the nail on the head.

Only the reformists can show the future for Islam in the UK.

Unfortunately because of the voices of those who fight against any change we have to watch plenty more of our children and adults get blown up and/or mangled by vans and/or knifed before anything actually effective is done about it.

If it even is.

Apparently in 2006 intelligence given to Cameron stated that approximately 200 people are planning attacks in this country at any one time.

There were roughly a million less Muslims here ten years ago.

We have great security services here.....despite their methods regularly being leaked onto the Internet.

Still, I don't blame anyone for worrying about this....It's a small but realistic concern.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jun 2017 2.02pm)

Very "nail-on-head" statements often aren't!

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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jun 17 5.20pm
Originally posted by europalace Sorry to disappoint you but it isn't 'my' island. Here for a few years. We always move on after 6-7 years. Some other tyrannical Western country I expect.
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Hrolf The Ganger

05 Jun 17 5.20pm

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Originally posted by europalace

Sorry to disappoint you but it isn't 'my' island. Here for a few years. We always move on after 6-7 years.

Some other tyrannical Western country I expect.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 5.20pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You and I know exactly what you are doing. It is nice to believe that you can out think people who have the bigger picture and experience of circumstances but that is by and large just a conceit. Foreign policy doesn't always go well and it certainly doesn't avoid unforeseen circumstances or side effects. These domestic attacks might well bring a change of policy and I'm sure we all agree that the quicker we take decisive steps to protect our citizens the better. Which are? Domestic policy also often has 'unforeseen consequences and side effects' as well. I hear about internment a lot, and its traditionally been a disaster when used. It escalated the Boer War and worked to the IRA, INLA and UFF / UVF's interests in Ireland. Its also been a massive problem when the US tried using 'illegal' detention. Arguably fuelling anti-Americanism across the Muslim world. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 05 Jun 17 5.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You and I know exactly what you are doing.

It is nice to believe that you can out think people who have the bigger picture and experience of circumstances but that is by and large just a conceit. Foreign policy doesn't always go well and it certainly doesn't avoid unforeseen circumstances or side effects.
These domestic attacks might well bring a change of policy and I'm sure we all agree that the quicker we take decisive steps to protect our citizens the better.

Which are? Domestic policy also often has 'unforeseen consequences and side effects' as well. I hear about internment a lot, and its traditionally been a disaster when used. It escalated the Boer War and worked to the IRA, INLA and UFF / UVF's interests in Ireland.

Its also been a massive problem when the US tried using 'illegal' detention. Arguably fuelling anti-Americanism across the Muslim world.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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NKEagle Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 5.20pm
Originally posted by europalace In your culture you would vote for a government to go and attack and kill people in another country under the guise of 'protecting its citizens'. In their culture they don't need a government to do a similar job when they feel their way of life is threatened. They are prepared to put their lives on the line for whatever they think is right whereas those in a 'western' culture are not - that's why they are effectively winning no matter what the media and government keep spouting. Are you saying that they're justified in blowing up women and children? Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 4.07pm)
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NKEagle

Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 5.20pm

Originally posted by europalace

In your culture you would vote for a government to go and attack and kill people in another country under the guise of 'protecting its citizens'. In their culture they don't need a government to do a similar job when they feel their way of life is threatened. They are prepared to put their lives on the line for whatever they think is right whereas those in a 'western' culture are not - that's why they are effectively winning no matter what the media and government keep spouting.

Are you saying that they're justified in blowing up women and children?

Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 4.07pm)

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europalace Europe 05 Jun 17 5.30pm
Originally posted by NKEagle Are you saying that they're justified in blowing up women and children? Where did I say that? No more justified than UK/US governments etc (voted in by their own countries citizens) killing thousands of civilians including women and children in a number of foreign countires where they have used military force against the people's will. What you're seeing now in parts of Europe and the UK is a backlash against that military action which has killed so many innocent citizens including children in those countries. Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.32pm)
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europalace

Europe 05 Jun 17 5.30pm

Originally posted by NKEagle
Are you saying that they're justified in blowing up women and children?

Where did I say that? No more justified than UK/US governments etc (voted in by their own countries citizens) killing thousands of civilians including women and children in a number of foreign countires where they have used military force against the people's will. What you're seeing now in parts of Europe and the UK is a backlash against that military action which has killed so many innocent citizens including children in those countries.

Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.32pm)

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NKEagle Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 5.31pm
Originally posted by europalace er, why shouldn't I? Maybe because I have a different opinion to yours? Maybe because I'm more open minded to see the world from a different and clearly broader perspective? If he lived anywhere else and criticized the government he'd get taken in for a friendly talking-to.
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NKEagle

Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 5.31pm

Originally posted by europalace

er, why shouldn't I? Maybe because I have a different opinion to yours? Maybe because I'm more open minded to see the world from a different and clearly broader perspective?

If he lived anywhere else and criticized the government he'd get taken in for a friendly talking-to.

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europalace Europe 05 Jun 17 5.31pm
Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.32pm)
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europalace

Europe 05 Jun 17 5.31pm

Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.32pm)

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