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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jun 17 4.50pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Oh I see, and Corbyn is the better option to defeat IS how exactly ? That's is not the point. The one you should be focusing on is that your preferred party, your/our Government are blatantly enabling hardline preachers and their acolytes certain freedoms because they are financed by saudi arabia. You should be fvcking disgusted by them. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Jun 2017 4.51pm)
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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 05 Jun 17 4.52pm | |
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Originally posted by elgrande
I asked you the other day,and you didn't reply. Our foreign policy does that include having a RAF Base on Malta,during the second world war. My dad was in the Royal Navy and the Malta Convoys, was torpedoed by Italian MTBs too.
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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jun 17 4.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
That's is not the point. The one you should be focusing on is that your preferred party, your/our Government are blatantly enabling hardline preachers and their acolytes certain freedoms because they are financed by saudi arabia. You should be fvcking disgusted by them. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Jun 2017 4.51pm) Do you have to make everything party political? Do you honestly think that Labour will make a jot of a difference to our underhand dealings? Don't be naive or worse, willfully misleading.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 4.56pm | |
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Originally posted by europalace
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that medling and interfering in Libya and Iraq have had consequences, and we need to remember these lessons in the future. Indeed the history of imperialism also has contributed to massive problems in the middle east. However that doesn't address the situation we're now in. Irrespective of Western geo-politics, Al-Qaeda and IS aren't going to go quietly, nor can they reasonably be negotiated with, because what they want, isn't ours to give. The West like it or not, economically needs Saudi Arabia, and it cannot 'give away' parts of Syria and Iraq to the 'caliphate' - They're not ours to give and they'd be a disaster for the future of Iraq and Kurdish Iraq (let alone whoever comes out on top in Syria). IS and Al-Qaeda aren't like Hezbollah or the PLO (or even Hamas political wing) in that they have reasonable objectives outside of their objectives and localised political impact. Groups like IS have to be dealt with - and its pretty clear that is militarily and through law enforcement. They're not even like the Taliban in their political structure. Their military, political and ideological goals are the same thing. Given stability, they'd soon turn their eyes to expansion. They're not good for Muslims, the middle east or the West.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jun 17 4.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Do you have to make everything party political? Do you honestly think that Labour will make a jot of a difference to our underhand dealings? Don't be naive or worse, willfully misleading. Eh? I haven't mentioned Labour. I am only exposing the government's obnoxious and vile practices re Saudi Arabia and their exportation of Wahhabism to the UK. They are turning a blind eye to it. Appears their voters are too which is remarkably repugnant. A vote for the them is a vote for the status quo. Something I know you don't want nor anyone with a hint of rationality about them. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Jun 2017 4.59pm)
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NKEagle Pyongyang 05 Jun 17 4.57pm | |
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Originally posted by europalace
What your argument seems to boil down to is that in certain cultures it's considered acceptable behavior to murder scores of innocent civilians as a form of protest, or revenge, for grievances, era or perceived, attributable to the actions of another nation (or even just for fun. But for the sake of debate let's assume that their home nation does have real grievances against western nations. It's really not a revelation that some cultures find this sort of behavior to be acceptable. By now almost everybody knows that. Instead, the question is -- should we sit back and take it, or try to prevent terror attacks? If the latter , should our principal means of preventing attacks be to disengage entirely fro middle eastern affairs? Does anybody really think that if, starting right now, we ceased having anything to do with the Middle East , that would prevent future attacks? Even assuming you're correct that we've brought this on ourselves because of our past interference (which I think is partly correct, but certainly a very overly simplistic view) , I highly doubt that disengaging entirely and immediately would stop future attacks. So, short of inventing a time machine, going back to at least before w w I and refraining from any interference whatsoever, what should we do now to prevent future attacks? Everything you've posted so far has gone to the motivations of the attackers. But what would you propose to do going forward to keep ourselves safe ?
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europalace Europe 05 Jun 17 4.59pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that medling and interfering in Libya and Iraq have had consequences, and we need to remember these lessons in the future. Indeed the history of imperialism also has contributed to massive problems in the middle east. However that doesn't address the situation we're now in. Irrespective of Western geo-politics, Al-Qaeda and IS aren't going to go quietly, nor can they reasonably be negotiated with, because what they want, isn't ours to give. The West like it or not, economically needs Saudi Arabia, and it cannot 'give away' parts of Syria and Iraq to the 'caliphate' - They're not ours to give and they'd be a disaster for the future of Iraq and Kurdish Iraq (let alone whoever comes out on top in Syria). IS and Al-Qaeda aren't like Hezbollah or the PLO (or even Hamas political wing) in that they have reasonable objectives outside of their objectives and localised political impact. Groups like IS have to be dealt with - and its pretty clear that is militarily and through law enforcement. They're not even like the Taliban in their political structure. Their military, political and ideological goals are the same thing. Given stability, they'd soon turn their eyes to expansion. They're not good for Muslims, the middle east or the West. Agree. No one is saying these people are 'good' for anyone but culturally they think they are. The problem is the continual policy of military action in foreign lands, if that never changes then the backfiring will continue until maybe there's a really big backfire, such as a national emergency situation. Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 5.14pm)
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hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 5.01pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
^^^^ I fear what that is leading up to is that this sh1tbag of a public-sector raping of a Government are going to do the sum total of fvck all about 'the problem' once they are re-elected. Vote Tory? Ha,ha - bunch of jokers. Dangerous jokers. The policy gymnastics of the left are very entertaining. A little while ago their standard response to a UK terrorist attack was to say it is very rare, more people die from eating peanuts etc and these minor difficulties are worth it to have a choice of foreign food restaurants.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Kermit8 Hevon 05 Jun 17 5.04pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
The policy gymnastics of the left are very entertaining. A little while ago their standard response to a UK terrorist attack was to say it is very rare, more people die from eating peanuts etc and these minor difficulties are worth it to have a choice of foreign food restaurants. You go ahead and ignore the problem and applaud your Saudi Wahhabi appeasers with a cross in the blue box on Thursday. You help the extremists more. Vote for Theresa!
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jamiemartin721 Reading 05 Jun 17 5.04pm | |
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Originally posted by NKEagle
I'd wager that most of the young men who carry out these attacks are motivated more by the whole 72 virgins/eternal paradise thing than by what have been alleged by some to be legitimate political grievances. I think it's giving them too much credit to say that they have sufficient knowledge of geopolitical affairs to form a reasoned political justification for their acts. I don't know about that. I think their personal greivences and their sense of persecution probably feed into it more than the eternal paradise thing. Things like the war in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan feed into that as well. Especially if you have ties to family in those countries (or others). Islamists appeal for very reasons other groups do, because they are the political opposition in very corrupt and brutal regimes. I doubt the appeal of IS isn't much different than that which attracted young idealistic 'revolutionaries' to far right or far left terror groups in the 70s and 80s. The notion of injustice, alienation in society, anger at the impotence to change them and the 'romance' of the revolutionary hero and a 'glorious death' that gives meaning to life. The arrogance of youth, with automatic weapons and the gospel of the truth.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Hrolf The Ganger 05 Jun 17 5.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Eh? I haven't mentioned Labour. I am only exposing the government's obnoxious and vile practices re Saudi Arabia and their exportation of Wahhabism to the UK. They are turning a blind eye to it. Appears their voters are too which is remarkably repugnant. Edited by Kermit8 (05 Jun 2017 4.57pm) You and I know exactly what you are doing. It is nice to believe that you can out think people who have the bigger picture and experience of circumstances but that is by and large just a conceit. Foreign policy doesn't always go well and it certainly doesn't avoid unforeseen circumstances or side effects.
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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 05 Jun 17 5.07pm | |
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So, if it was unwise to intervene in Iraq and Libya, why are so many people so keen on getting involved in Syria to the extent of toppling Assad? Is he more of a c*nt than Saddam or Gaddafi?
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