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General Election 2017

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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 21 Apr 17 1.18pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I'm sitting at my desk right now but it's a slow week due to most people being off for Easter!

I enjoy the debating. Also I can't debate on social media and most of my friends share similar views. I'd also rather have the discussion with Palace fans than a bunch of trolls somewhere random on the net.


Also, happily, this is relevant to my work so most of this stuff I have researched anyway.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 21 Apr 17 1.24pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I've provided 3 different charts. One is government debt.

French govt debt as a % of GDP is 96%

Euro govt debt as. % of GDP is 91%

UK's is 89%

 


COYP

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Stirlingsays Flag 21 Apr 17 1.38pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

That makes no sense... How would that make inequality lower??


Because an economy that has a surplus from exploitation or indeed by any other means has far more money to spend on its social programmes.

I would have thought that was obvious.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 1.40pm

Originally posted by Pikester

Nick - there's probably not many Conservative voters who don't agree with all that either.

You come across as having this blinkered view that every Tory voter has a massive portfolio of shares and a private health plan and couldn't give a monkey's about the disabled, gay and poor members of society.

The truth is most Conservative voters would like the NHS to be better funded. Most Conservative voters would like London to be populated by Londoners and not foreign investors. Most Conservative voters would like wealth to be better distributed.

But most Conservative voters know that Labour always get the mix wrong. They fall over themselves to give everyone with a bad back a disabled badge and a motorbility car. They go out of their way to ensure the gay members of society get investment. They always end up bankrupting the country whilst pretending to be a latter day Robin Hood.

The hardworking people of Britain are then left with a choice of knowing they are propping up the Tories mates at large corporations or watching Labour fund every 'good' cause going and screw up the economy.

You really need to stop seeing it as a good against evil battle and realise that Conservative voters are not a bunch of property barons looking for a Tax dodge - but members of society looking for an acceptable alternative yet being offered Corbyn, Kinnock, Foot, Blair, Brown etc. and pie in the sky dreams of everybody being equal.


Of course I know there are many working class Tory voters.


Do you see the Tories Manifesto including any ideas similar to Corbyns points..

I read today that May will hand over parts of the NHS as part of a trade deal with the USA. More British assets going. That's what Tories do. Sell stuff off..

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 21 Apr 17 1.44pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Keynes is a real hero of mine even with heart problems he was criss-crossing the Atlantic trying to get the money to stimulate the country into life and such a fascinating person with no problems thinking completely out of the box his early death a tragedy.

I don't think I can understand 'new keynes' and the complexities of economic theory I prefer the basic principles of keynes as basis for running an economy.

Stimulus to be applied in lean times austerity to be applied in boom times of course its not as simplistic as that but its the way of thinking IMO.

How could the tories policy of endless spending cuts possibly work by itself?


 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 Apr 17 1.47pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I'm sitting at my desk right now but it's a slow week due to most people being off for Easter!

I enjoy the debating. Also I can't debate on social media and most of my friends share similar views. I'd also rather have the discussion with Palace fans than a bunch of trolls somewhere random on the net.

Well fair enough.

However, I am always intrigued by people who have such definite opinions about economics since it is so predictably unpredictable.
Surely there can be no principle that is foolproof when deciding economic policy.

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 21 Apr 17 1.49pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


Of course I know there are many working class Tory voters.


Do you see the Tories Manifesto including any ideas similar to Corbyns points..

I read today that May will hand over parts of the NHS as part of a trade deal with the USA. More British assets going. That's what Tories do. Sell stuff off..

Do you mean that Corbyns saying the tories are running the country down is deliberate govt.policy?

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 21 Apr 17 1.51pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset


Of course I know there are many working class Tory voters.


Do you see the Tories Manifesto including any ideas similar to Corbyns points..

I read today that May will hand over parts of the NHS as part of a trade deal with the USA. More British assets going. That's what Tories do. Sell stuff off..

You really are fixated by manifestos. You surely realise that in modern politics they are not worth spit.

 

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steeleye20 Flag Croydon 21 Apr 17 1.54pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Well fair enough.

However, I am always intrigued by people who have such definite opinions about economics since it is so predictably unpredictable.
Surely there can be no principle that is foolproof when deciding economic policy.

Pay it in when your flush
Draw it out when you are skint

A.Hancock economic theory.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 21 Apr 17 1.57pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

All of us are up to the ears in debt I think isn't that how the USA functions.

From my times in Europe I would say that europpeans generally have a good social model and the angst and stress of being constantly poor is not the burden it is here nor is Europe itself an issue at all.

People seem relaxed and sure of themselves and confident they will be ok.

Its not about politics really as left and right leaning govts. don't have a problem with people's taxes paying for their welfare whereas here there is always the ideological problem with the tories belief that they are masters.

Obviously Central Europe has more people living in rented accommodation with legal controls. Getting a mortgage in France is nearly impossible. You might laugh at this but I do think they're less obsessed in France with home interior improvements. Not having those costs or aspirational targets saves them all a load of money. How confident can you be that's a good reliable model for any of us to live into retirement over here?

Why is there a massive gap between your comment and the quote thing. Do you lean on the space bar?

 


COYP

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 21 Apr 17 2.00pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Ha glad you're enjoying it! I admit I like the debate. It's also given me a chance to read some interesting articles from different perspectives. FYI I used to be a conservative party member back in 2005 when I turned 18 but since studying economics at university and entering the world of work and generally reading more about politics and economics I have gradually changed my opinion to be much more closely aligned with socialist principles and new Keynesian economic thinking. I find it to be much more holistic, realistic and takes into account market inefficiencies and the irrationality of people as economic agents. I would implore everyone reading this thread to read Stiglitz's articles on inequality. I have dug out this opinion piece by Krugman which was written prior to the last election about austerity [Link]

It's excellent.

I'd recommend these 2 books.

14927795611661842433764.jpg Attachment: 14927795611661842433764.jpg (3,101.49Kb)

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 21 Apr 17 2.00pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by steeleye20

Keynes is a real hero of mine even with heart problems he was criss-crossing the Atlantic trying to get the money to stimulate the country into life and such a fascinating person with no problems thinking completely out of the box his early death a tragedy.

I don't think I can understand 'new keynes' and the complexities of economic theory I prefer the basic principles of keynes as basis for running an economy.

Stimulus to be applied in lean times austerity to be applied in boom times of course its not as simplistic as that but its the way of thinking IMO.

How could the tories policy of endless spending cuts possibly work by itself?

Huge pent up demand for actual necessities post war with everything demolished to rubble and a make do and mend culture for 6+ years, and the rest.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (21 Apr 2017 2.01pm)

 


COYP

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