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rossboss29 Portsmouth 21 Jul 14 10.36pm
I really dislike Israel. Their annual slaughter. I'm aware there's two sides to each story, but their is so much injustice and I'm totally sympathetic to Palestine.
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rossboss29

Portsmouth 21 Jul 14 10.36pm

I really dislike Israel. Their annual slaughter. I'm aware there's two sides to each story, but their is so much injustice and I'm totally sympathetic to Palestine.

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Stirlingsays 21 Jul 14 10.40pm
Quote redpalace91 at 21 Jul 2014 10.31pm If there is to be significant positive change in that area, it is up to Israel to make the first move. So far, they have sent out exactly the wrong messages. The way they treat the Palestinians is nothing short of terrible. I'm not too sure how things are going to change that much.....Not until the Labour party are in control in Israel anyway. We have a Palestinian 'coalition government' but in reality nothing has changed. Fatah and Hamas still control their own areas and ignore each other....That's what I hear anyway. Hamas have stopped elections for three years in Gaza and carried out a continual war with Israel as an excuse. Israel are happy to use Hamas as an excuse for ignoring peace moves and continue to permit and encourage land grab settlements in the west bank....Displacing whole communities like they did in 46/47. By weakening the position of Fatah they get to go to war regularly with Hamas.....The unacceptable side to the Palestinians.....Despite the support that some on here are willing to give them. Privately Obama needs to get tough with the land grab situation in the west bank. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2014 10.41pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Jul 14 10.40pm

Quote redpalace91 at 21 Jul 2014 10.31pm

If there is to be significant positive change in that area, it is up to Israel to make the first move. So far, they have sent out exactly the wrong messages. The way they treat the Palestinians is nothing short of terrible.

I'm not too sure how things are going to change that much.....Not until the Labour party are in control in Israel anyway.

We have a Palestinian 'coalition government' but in reality nothing has changed. Fatah and Hamas still control their own areas and ignore each other....That's what I hear anyway.

Hamas have stopped elections for three years in Gaza and carried out a continual war with Israel as an excuse.

Israel are happy to use Hamas as an excuse for ignoring peace moves and continue to permit and encourage land grab settlements in the west bank....Displacing whole communities like they did in 46/47.

By weakening the position of Fatah they get to go to war regularly with Hamas.....The unacceptable side to the Palestinians.....Despite the support that some on here are willing to give them.

Privately Obama needs to get tough with the land grab situation in the west bank.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jul 2014 10.41pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 21 Jul 14 10.41pm
Quote redpalace91 at 21 Jul 2014 10.31pm Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.18pm Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 10.08pm Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.01pm Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 9.44pm Indeed. It is a disgrace on the US and Europe, and, in the long term, does no favours to Israel and everyone else. Money talks though! In what sense does it do, 'no favours to Israel'? In the sense that it gives them a feeling that they can get away with anything and therefore they do not have to consider other international opinion. This means that they push the limits of bullying and oppression in a very uneven fight, far beyond what would otherwise be considered as reasonable. It's a good point. Still, I suspect they know, in reality, how much rope they have. I would reckon that Obama knows how long the ground invasion is planned to last. As in how much Israel cares about opinion outside of that.....I'd say they do care about general western opinion and they are willing to accept a 'mixed' response......Which is pretty much what will always happen when Hamas is involved. If there is to be significant positive change in that area, it is up to Israel to make the first move. So far, they have sent out exactly the wrong messages. The way they treat the Palestinians is nothing short of terrible. In real, human terms I completely agree, but the aggressive position of Palestine (and other Arab States) against Israel is also deeply at fault. Unless you ascribe to the idea that Israel should be relocated, then both sides have to reach a position based on realpolitik,, which means that the right of Israel to exist must be accepted, in principle, by its neighbours. The point is that Israel has the US safety net, the nuclear weapons and the massive superiority in almost all areas so they should behave in a way which acknowledges these facts and not as an 'equal' protagonist. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 21 Jul 14 10.41pm

Quote redpalace91 at 21 Jul 2014 10.31pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.18pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 10.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.01pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 9.44pm

Indeed. It is a disgrace on the US and Europe, and, in the long term, does no favours to Israel and everyone else. Money talks though!

In what sense does it do, 'no favours to Israel'?

In the sense that it gives them a feeling that they can get away with anything and therefore they do not have to consider other international opinion. This means that they push the limits of bullying and oppression in a very uneven fight, far beyond what would otherwise be considered as reasonable.

It's a good point.

Still, I suspect they know, in reality, how much rope they have. I would reckon that Obama knows how long the ground invasion is planned to last.

As in how much Israel cares about opinion outside of that.....I'd say they do care about general western opinion and they are willing to accept a 'mixed' response......Which is pretty much what will always happen when Hamas is involved.

If there is to be significant positive change in that area, it is up to Israel to make the first move. So far, they have sent out exactly the wrong messages. The way they treat the Palestinians is nothing short of terrible.

In real, human terms I completely agree, but the aggressive position of Palestine (and other Arab States) against Israel is also deeply at fault.

Unless you ascribe to the idea that Israel should be relocated, then both sides have to reach a position based on realpolitik,, which means that the right of Israel to exist must be accepted, in principle, by its neighbours.

The point is that Israel has the US safety net, the nuclear weapons and the massive superiority in almost all areas so they should behave in a way which acknowledges these facts and not as an 'equal' protagonist.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 21 Jul 14 11.35pm
Quote davidpercival at 21 Jul 2014 9.06pm Carrying on buying your fruit from Israel if you like but for me it would taste of the blood of Palestinian children blown up on a beach by Isareli guns and I could not eat it and not feel sick. ...pretty sure it would taste of fruit. "IS HE!!?" -Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter: [Link] "You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"
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EagleEyedAlbert

...too far north of the water. 21 Jul 14 11.35pm

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Quote davidpercival at 21 Jul 2014 9.06pm

Carrying on buying your fruit from Israel if you like but for me it would taste of the blood of Palestinian children blown up on a beach by Isareli guns and I could not eat it and not feel sick.

...pretty sure it would taste of fruit.

"IS HE!!?"

-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense:

Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link]

HOL Radio Twitter: [Link]

Me on the Twitter: [Link]

"You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"

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EagleEyedAlbert ...too far north of the water. 21 Jul 14 11.39pm
Quote redpalace91 at 21 Jul 2014 10.31pm Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.18pm Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 10.08pm Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.01pm Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 9.44pm Indeed. It is a disgrace on the US and Europe, and, in the long term, does no favours to Israel and everyone else. Money talks though! In what sense does it do, 'no favours to Israel'? In the sense that it gives them a feeling that they can get away with anything and therefore they do not have to consider other international opinion. This means that they push the limits of bullying and oppression in a very uneven fight, far beyond what would otherwise be considered as reasonable. It's a good point. Still, I suspect they know, in reality, how much rope they have. I would reckon that Obama knows how long the ground invasion is planned to last. As in how much Israel cares about opinion outside of that.....I'd say they do care about general western opinion and they are willing to accept a 'mixed' response......Which is pretty much what will always happen when Hamas is involved. If there is to be significant positive change in that area, it is up to Israel to make the first move. So far, they have sent out exactly the wrong messages. The way they treat the Palestinians is nothing short of terrible. ...like agreeing to a ceasefire and then ignoring it? Oh, wait... "IS HE!!?" -Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense: Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link] HOL Radio Twitter: [Link] Me on the Twitter: [Link] "You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"
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EagleEyedAlbert

...too far north of the water. 21 Jul 14 11.39pm

Quote redpalace91 at 21 Jul 2014 10.31pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.18pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 10.08pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 21 Jul 2014 10.01pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 21 Jul 2014 9.44pm

Indeed. It is a disgrace on the US and Europe, and, in the long term, does no favours to Israel and everyone else. Money talks though!

In what sense does it do, 'no favours to Israel'?

It's a good point.

Still, I suspect they know, in reality, how much rope they have. I would reckon that Obama knows how long the ground invasion is planned to last.

If there is to be significant positive change in that area, it is up to Israel to make the first move. So far, they have sent out exactly the wrong messages. The way they treat the Palestinians is nothing short of terrible.

...like agreeing to a ceasefire and then ignoring it?

Oh, wait...

"IS HE!!?"

-Can often be found on HOL Radio chatting Palace-related nonsense:

Catch it here, Sunday Nights 8pm: [Link]

HOL Radio Twitter: [Link]

Me on the Twitter: [Link]

"You don't own a dog & bark yourself, do you?"

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 22 Jul 14 12.28am
[Link] Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 22 Jul 14 12.28am

[Link]

Pro USA & Israel

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Seth On a pale blue dot 22 Jul 14 12.37am
Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am [Link] That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 22 Jul 14 12.37am

Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am

[Link]

That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 22 Jul 14 12.39am
Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 12.37am Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am [Link] That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution Just posting a Link which I'd seen on Facebook Seth don't splutter on your fair trade coffee...... Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 22 Jul 14 12.39am

Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 12.37am

Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am

[Link]

That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution

Just posting a Link which I'd seen on Facebook Seth don't splutter on your fair trade coffee......

Pro USA & Israel

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Seth On a pale blue dot 22 Jul 14 1.40am
Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.39am Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 12.37am Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am [Link] That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution Just posting a Link which I'd seen on Facebook Seth don't splutter on your fair trade coffee...... No spluttering going on here Jimmy boy. And hey, if you've seen it on facebook, well then it MUST have validity! "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 22 Jul 14 1.40am

Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.39am

Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 12.37am

Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am

[Link]

That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution

Just posting a Link which I'd seen on Facebook Seth don't splutter on your fair trade coffee......

No spluttering going on here Jimmy boy. And hey, if you've seen it on facebook, well then it MUST have validity!

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 22 Jul 14 2.09am
Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 1.40am Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.39am Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 12.37am Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am [Link] That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution Just posting a Link which I'd seen on Facebook Seth don't splutter on your fair trade coffee...... No spluttering going on here Jimmy boy. And hey, if you've seen it on facebook, well then it MUST have validity! Sheesh what's your problem? It was just something I saw on FB & thought I'd post it on here. Maybe Matt was right about you "Beth". It's no worse than some of the Lefty bollocks you and your ilk post, so wind yer neck in there's a good girl.......... Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 22 Jul 14 2.09am

Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 1.40am

Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.39am

Quote Seth at 22 Jul 2014 12.37am

Quote Jimenez at 22 Jul 2014 12.28am

[Link]

That looks like a thoroughly independent and unbiased viewpoint Jimmy, thanks for the contribution

Just posting a Link which I'd seen on Facebook Seth don't splutter on your fair trade coffee......

No spluttering going on here Jimmy boy. And hey, if you've seen it on facebook, well then it MUST have validity!

Sheesh what's your problem? It was just something I saw on FB & thought I'd post it on here. Maybe Matt was right about you "Beth". It's no worse than some of the Lefty bollocks you and your ilk post, so wind yer neck in there's a good girl..........

Pro USA & Israel

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Palacetinian Surrey Fam 22 Jul 14 2.43am
This is what Israel is doing in Gaza. If it really wants peace it would be supporting the two state solution which the international community is supposedly pursuing rather than undermining it by stealing more land, moving more settlers to the West Bank and creating more unrest in Gaza. It's doing things like this that creates the conditions for Hamas to thrive... [Link] Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!
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Palacetinian

Surrey Fam 22 Jul 14 2.43am

This is what Israel is doing in Gaza. If it really wants peace it would be supporting the two state solution which the international community is supposedly pursuing rather than undermining it by stealing more land, moving more settlers to the West Bank and creating more unrest in Gaza.

It's doing things like this that creates the conditions for Hamas to thrive... [Link]

Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)!

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Stirlingsays 22 Jul 14 9.30am
Quote Palacetinian at 22 Jul 2014 2.43am This is what Israel is doing in Gaza. If it really wants peace it would be supporting the two state solution which the international community is supposedly pursuing rather than undermining it by stealing more land, moving more settlers to the West Bank and creating more unrest in Gaza. It's doing things like this that creates the conditions for Hamas to thrive... [Link] Israel has supporters of a two state solution just as the Palestinians have. At the moment neither of these two voices are heard due to governments that both peoples have elected. I agree with you on Israel's lack of support for Fatah by weakening its position via settler expansion in its region......A lack of engagement with Fatah gives Hamas the prominence as the only path for Palestinians and hence this right wing government in Israel can demonize the Palestinians as an unacceptable enemy....Because even within this injustice Hamas are not acceptable and offer no realistic solution. The 'coalition' further weakens Fatah by losing its voice within a Hamas framework. Now they offer a 'truce' working towards a two state solution...No recognition of Israel or permanent peace.....That sounds a lot like Hamas policy.....Stupid move that alienates Fatah from the west while most of the Arab governments will shrug their shoulders in real terms. The clip you link doesn't do anything to me. Anyone who doesn't know about what happens on front lines just hasn't been taking notice. This video has supposedly been taken from Shujaiyeh a district of major Hamas resistance. What is it...The IDF lost up to 20 fighting around there. He's wearing no clothing that suggests he's anything official...Red cross or anything like that. He and all those who operate on front lines do so at huge risk....Even officially. If you put a gun in someones arms in a war zone and they see movement, they tend to shoot. The IDF had told civilians to leave the area before the attack....I keep hearing from Gazans, 'there's no where to go'....Yes, there is it's called the UN compounds. You go there until this attack is over even if it is overflowing. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2014 9.35am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Jul 14 9.30am

Quote Palacetinian at 22 Jul 2014 2.43am

It's doing things like this that creates the conditions for Hamas to thrive... [Link]

Israel has supporters of a two state solution just as the Palestinians have.

At the moment neither of these two voices are heard due to governments that both peoples have elected.

I agree with you on Israel's lack of support for Fatah by weakening its position via settler expansion in its region......A lack of engagement with Fatah gives Hamas the prominence as the only path for Palestinians and hence this right wing government in Israel can demonize the Palestinians as an unacceptable enemy....Because even within this injustice Hamas are not acceptable and offer no realistic solution.

The 'coalition' further weakens Fatah by losing its voice within a Hamas framework. Now they offer a 'truce' working towards a two state solution...No recognition of Israel or permanent peace.....That sounds a lot like Hamas policy.....Stupid move that alienates Fatah from the west while most of the Arab governments will shrug their shoulders in real terms.

The clip you link doesn't do anything to me.

Anyone who doesn't know about what happens on front lines just hasn't been taking notice. This video has supposedly been taken from Shujaiyeh a district of major Hamas resistance. What is it...The IDF lost up to 20 fighting around there.

He's wearing no clothing that suggests he's anything official...Red cross or anything like that. He and all those who operate on front lines do so at huge risk....Even officially. If you put a gun in someones arms in a war zone and they see movement, they tend to shoot.

The IDF had told civilians to leave the area before the attack....I keep hearing from Gazans, 'there's no where to go'....Yes, there is it's called the UN compounds. You go there until this attack is over even if it is overflowing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Jul 2014 9.35am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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