CONservative government incompetence.

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CONservative government incompetence.

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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Jan 23 8.27pm
'It's like the band on the Titanic. Playing the same tune and ignoring the obvious'. Lee Anderson Tory MP for Ashfield.
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steeleye20

Croydon 30 Jan 23 8.27pm

'It's like the band on the Titanic. Playing the same tune and ignoring the obvious'.

Lee Anderson Tory MP for Ashfield.

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stancummins 30 Jan 23 8.33pm
not the same Lee Anderson who was thrown out of the Labour Party
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stancummins

30 Jan 23 8.33pm

not the same Lee Anderson who was thrown out of the Labour Party

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Stirlingsays 30 Jan 23 8.36pm
Originally posted by stancummins yes and we heard all that cobblers before 1997 and then ended up with over 10 years of economic growth 2008 didn't happen out of thin air. That growth was built upon financial markets pushing a fantasy. The realisation of that....when the time was due to pay those bad loans....brought that home and the whole system very nearly collapsed completely.....in fact the truth is that it's never really recovered. The sticking plaster was Joe Public bailing out Joe Corporate.....on the never never...backloading on the unborn's future. Don't be surprised next time, be informed. The US is sitting on 31 trillion of debt....the repayments of that is 25 percent of its tax base. How do you think that's going to go moving forward? Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 8.39pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 Jan 23 8.36pm

Originally posted by stancummins

yes and we heard all that cobblers before 1997 and then ended up with over 10 years of economic growth

2008 didn't happen out of thin air.

That growth was built upon financial markets pushing a fantasy.

The realisation of that....when the time was due to pay those bad loans....brought that home and the whole system very nearly collapsed completely.....in fact the truth is that it's never really recovered.

The sticking plaster was Joe Public bailing out Joe Corporate.....on the never never...backloading on the unborn's future.

Don't be surprised next time, be informed.

The US is sitting on 31 trillion of debt....the repayments of that is 25 percent of its tax base.

How do you think that's going to go moving forward?

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 Jan 2023 8.39pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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steeleye20 Croydon 30 Jan 23 10.04pm
Rishi S has not acted wrongly over Zahawi, just not ruthlessly enough for most people. But really what is the purpose of this, he is unelected, the regime is totally clapped out, stuck in moral squalor, nothing in the UK works and Johnson is lurking menacingly. Even the 100 billion new train won't get to the end of the line. He should do the decent thing. Let us decide.
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steeleye20

Croydon 30 Jan 23 10.04pm

Rishi S has not acted wrongly over Zahawi, just not ruthlessly enough for most people.

But really what is the purpose of this, he is unelected, the regime is totally clapped out, stuck in moral squalor, nothing in the UK works and Johnson is lurking menacingly.

Even the 100 billion new train won't get to the end of the line.

He should do the decent thing.

Let us decide.

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Mapletree Croydon 30 Jan 23 10.22pm
Originally posted by stancummins not the same Lee Anderson who was thrown out of the Labour Party He wasn’t. He was suspended. And to be honest the reason for his suspension gives me cause to sympathise.
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Mapletree

Croydon 30 Jan 23 10.22pm

Originally posted by stancummins

not the same Lee Anderson who was thrown out of the Labour Party

He wasn’t. He was suspended. And to be honest the reason for his suspension gives me cause to sympathise.

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Stirlingsays 30 Jan 23 11.21pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Rishi S has not acted wrongly over Zahawi, just not ruthlessly enough for most people. But really what is the purpose of this, he is unelected, the regime is totally clapped out, stuck in moral squalor, nothing in the UK works and Johnson is lurking menacingly. Even the 100 billion new train won't get to the end of the line. He should do the decent thing. Let us decide. I would agree with you that how Sunak came to power is underhand. However, it also happened with Brown and Labour couldn't have given two monkeys. So they are both as bad as each other in this respect. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 Jan 23 11.21pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Rishi S has not acted wrongly over Zahawi, just not ruthlessly enough for most people.

But really what is the purpose of this, he is unelected, the regime is totally clapped out, stuck in moral squalor, nothing in the UK works and Johnson is lurking menacingly.

Even the 100 billion new train won't get to the end of the line.

He should do the decent thing.

Let us decide.

I would agree with you that how Sunak came to power is underhand.

However, it also happened with Brown and Labour couldn't have given two monkeys.

So they are both as bad as each other in this respect.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cryrst The garden of England 31 Jan 23 3.04am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I would agree with you that how Sunak came to power is underhand. However, it also happened with Brown and Labour couldn't have given two monkeys. So they are both as bad as each other in this respect. Wash your mouth out, labour, hypocrites surely not. They slagged off PFI, then used it to balance the books on their spending. Edited by cryrst (31 Jan 2023 5.27am)
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cryrst

The garden of England 31 Jan 23 3.04am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I would agree with you that how Sunak came to power is underhand.

However, it also happened with Brown and Labour couldn't have given two monkeys.

So they are both as bad as each other in this respect.

Wash your mouth out, labour, hypocrites surely not.
They slagged off PFI, then used it to balance the books on their spending.

Edited by cryrst (31 Jan 2023 5.27am)

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Stirlingsays 31 Jan 23 3.19am
Originally posted by cryrst Wash your mouth out, labour, hypocrites surely not. They never slagged off PFI, then used it to balance the books on their spending. Yep started by Major but expanded massively by Blair. Yet another long term financial liability enacted for short term political victories. Sounded like a good idea at the time but the small print meant it ended up costing the earth down the line. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

31 Jan 23 3.19am

Originally posted by cryrst

Wash your mouth out, labour, hypocrites surely not.
They never slagged off PFI, then used it to balance the books on their spending.

Yep started by Major but expanded massively by Blair. Yet another long term financial liability enacted for short term political victories.

Sounded like a good idea at the time but the small print meant it ended up costing the earth down the line.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cryrst The garden of England 31 Jan 23 5.26am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yep started by Major but expanded massively by Blair. Yet another long term financial liability enacted for short term political victories. Sounded like a good idea at the time but the small print meant it ended up costing the earth down the line. Not sure if true but some may still be in place.
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cryrst

The garden of England 31 Jan 23 5.26am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Not sure if true but some may still be in place.

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Badger11 Beckenham 31 Jan 23 8.29am
Originally posted by cryrst Not sure if true but some may still be in place. I think they are I'm sure I read about various NHS trusts being saddled with crippling debt so spending too much on interest payments. Under whose watch Labour / Tory I have no idea. In theory there is nothing wrong with PFI it's just like a mortgage, if you agree a bad deal that's on you, don't scrap the mortgage market. However my preference would be for the government to create a National Infrastructure Bank which would allow grants / loans for stuff like this I believe Labour has suggested this in the past. Of course the question then is how is this bank funded and who gets to use it. Edited by Badger11 (31 Jan 2023 8.57am) Edited by Badger11 (31 Jan 2023 8.58am) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 31 Jan 23 8.29am

Originally posted by cryrst

Not sure if true but some may still be in place.

I think they are I'm sure I read about various NHS trusts being saddled with crippling debt so spending too much on interest payments. Under whose watch Labour / Tory I have no idea.

In theory there is nothing wrong with PFI it's just like a mortgage, if you agree a bad deal that's on you, don't scrap the mortgage market.

However my preference would be for the government to create a National Infrastructure Bank which would allow grants / loans for stuff like this I believe Labour has suggested this in the past.

Of course the question then is how is this bank funded and who gets to use it.

Edited by Badger11 (31 Jan 2023 8.57am)

Edited by Badger11 (31 Jan 2023 8.58am)

One more point

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Mapletree Croydon 31 Jan 23 9.58am
Originally posted by cryrst Not sure if true but some may still be in place. There are currently over 700 operational PFI contracts in place in the UK with a capital value of £57 billion. The US recently used PFI to accelerate getting COVID vaccines. I was involved in PFIs, including 'big MACs' which were build and then manage. It certainly appears that later in the day they have been found not to offer value for money in comparison with keeping the process within the public sector. In January 2018 the NAO report effectively amounted to a demolition job of all the arguments used by the Treasury since 1992 to justify using private finance over public borrowing. It showed that the high price paid for using private finance to build and then provide public services cannot be justified in terms of “risk transfer” or greater efficiencies. It is in reality an accounting ruse to keep debt off the public sector balance sheet, which the report describes as a “fiscal illusion”. Even a slight adjustment to the discount rate used by the Treasury to measure Value for Money causes the private finance advantage over public sector borrowing to disappear. Unusual for people on here to laud the public sector and prefer it to the private sector, but that appears to be how this has played out.
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Mapletree

Croydon 31 Jan 23 9.58am

Originally posted by cryrst

Not sure if true but some may still be in place.

There are currently over 700 operational PFI contracts in place in the UK with a capital value of £57 billion.

The US recently used PFI to accelerate getting COVID vaccines.

I was involved in PFIs, including 'big MACs' which were build and then manage. It certainly appears that later in the day they have been found not to offer value for money in comparison with keeping the process within the public sector.

In January 2018 the NAO report effectively amounted to a demolition job of all the arguments used by the Treasury since 1992 to justify using private finance over public borrowing.

It showed that the high price paid for using private finance to build and then provide public services cannot be justified in terms of “risk transfer” or greater efficiencies. It is in reality an accounting ruse to keep debt off the public sector balance sheet, which the report describes as a “fiscal illusion”. Even a slight adjustment to the discount rate used by the Treasury to measure Value for Money causes the private finance advantage over public sector borrowing to disappear.

Unusual for people on here to laud the public sector and prefer it to the private sector, but that appears to be how this has played out.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Feb 23 7.45am
Originally posted by Mapletree He wasn’t. He was suspended. And to be honest the reason for his suspension gives me cause to sympathise. I agree with this. Anderson is an old school constituency MP who actually cares about his constituents. The personification of the Red Wall voter, no grey in his world, only black and white. These days forthrightness is not something MPs generally embrace. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 01 Feb 23 7.45am

Originally posted by Mapletree

He wasn’t. He was suspended. And to be honest the reason for his suspension gives me cause to sympathise.

I agree with this. Anderson is an old school constituency MP who actually cares about his constituents.

The personification of the Red Wall voter, no grey in his world, only black and white.

These days forthrightness is not something MPs generally embrace.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Alert a moderator to this post

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