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7mins In the bush 12 Oct 16 1.51pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
They settled because they knew they'd probably lose the case. They employed an officer whos previous employers had listed as unfit for duty, emotional unstable and a potential danger to life - and recorded that on his file - He'd only avoided being sacked (which would have made him unemployable) by resigning, and then Cleveland police never run a background check when recruiting him. Suggesting either they knew, and didn't care, or were negligent. There is no way they could have won a civil case. The officers managed to avoid charges really on a reasonable doubt basis. In civil court, on balance of probability, with a prior on one cop of excessive force against a woman, they were going be found culpable - which would have exposed their internal procedures, processes and training etc, opening them up for more law suits, possibly even a class action law suit if they were found to be negligent in their training, oversight, recruitment and protocol. That's why they settled for 6m. I disagree. If I copper shot a middle class kid there wouldn't be hell to pay. I would guess there would be no riots, no revenge shootings, no attacks on white people. If a copper is faced with a guy reaching for a gun, how does he "contain the situation"? Also is it fair to bring up a coppers past, but when Trayvon/Stirling/Browns past are brought up, BLM say it has zero relevance?
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nairb75 Baltimore 12 Oct 16 2.09pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I disagree. If I copper shot a middle class kid there wouldn't be hell to pay. I would guess there would be no riots, no revenge shootings, no attacks on white people. If a copper is faced with a guy reaching for a gun, how does he "contain the situation"? Also is it fair to bring up a coppers past, but when Trayvon/Stirling/Browns past are brought up, BLM say it has zero relevance? any officer in a major city is trained on this very thing. tamir rice was shot by a rookie cop. it's pretty simple - you drive up and assess the situation. you don't drive up to 2 inches from the person when no one is around at all. get a safety distance to announce your presence. turn on your lights and siren. first order of business is to defuse when no one is in immiment danger.
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soulboy Lewisham 12 Oct 16 2.13pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I disagree. If I copper shot a middle class kid there wouldn't be hell to pay. I would guess there would be no riots, no revenge shootings, no attacks on white people.
Your commentary and forthright views are shared by millions of Americans, all destined to vote for Donald Trump in next month's US Presidential election.
"Deviance is a freedom enjoyed in a city of lightly engaged strangers" |
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7mins In the bush 12 Oct 16 2.49pm | |
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Originally posted by soulboy
Your commentary and forthright views are shared by millions of Americans, all destined to vote for Donald Trump in next month's US Presidential election. Cheap. What would you have done?
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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 16 5.32pm | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
I disagree. If I copper shot a middle class kid there wouldn't be hell to pay. I would guess there would be no riots, no revenge shootings, no attacks on white people. If a copper is faced with a guy reaching for a gun, how does he "contain the situation"? Also is it fair to bring up a coppers past, but when Trayvon/Stirling/Browns past are brought up, BLM say it has zero relevance? Bollocks - He'd be logging evidence if he was lucky, unless he had a very solid defence, and it would go to independent oversight, because the parents lawyer would force the issue. Chances are he'd lose his job and the degree to which the force closed ranks would be much lower, because the kids parents could afford to good lawyer. Justice costs in this world. Coppers Past - Yes, because a police officer is a representative of the state with the authority to utilise force. As such, their past is important - And very relivent when your previous employer, also a police department, was discharging you for being emotionally unstable. When employing anyone, their past and their suitability to the job, and their capacity is a vital factor in determining their employment. Being a police officer isn't just a job. I'm not saying BLM are automatically correct. However, and it seem to bear saying over and over again, there is a massive problem with police and police shootings (both of officers and civilians) in the US, which the police have virtually no accountability for. Of course, sometimes a police officer is going to have to make a call, and sometimes shoot. And the only way to determine whether that shooting was justified is to have a clear process of investigation and accountability - not just for the officer but also for the police department (in fact especially the department). Otherwise you end up with a situation where community trust and engagement with the police becomes stretched to the point of violence. The US doesn't even keep records of the number of civilans shot by the police each year.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 16 5.33pm | |
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Originally posted by nairb75
any officer in a major city is trained on this very thing. tamir rice was shot by a rookie cop. it's pretty simple - you drive up and assess the situation. you don't drive up to 2 inches from the person when no one is around at all. get a safety distance to announce your presence. turn on your lights and siren. first order of business is to defuse when no one is in immiment danger. What he said. Assess and respond to the situation in a manner that reduces the necessity for confrontation.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Oct 16 5.45pm | |
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Tried a line of communication. Plus I'd have also kept in contact with the handler, and established everything they had to say. It worth noting that the dispatcher did not pass on the information that a) the caller reported it was a juvenile b) that the witness believed the gun to be a fake. Its also pretty important to not that the kid has been pointing the gun at people, but no shots have been fired, reports made of threatening behaviour or crimes committed. Its also important to note that the police report from the deputy chief did state that the child did not threaten the officers verbally, or physically. So the problem, I would say isn't with the officer per se, but the failure of the police department, which arguably also put an officer into potentially dangerous situation, which they arguably had a reasonable chance of getting shot (if we accept the counter argument).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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7mins In the bush 12 Oct 16 10.29pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Tried a line of communication. Plus I'd have also kept in contact with the handler, and established everything they had to say. It worth noting that the dispatcher did not pass on the information that a) the caller reported it was a juvenile b) that the witness believed the gun to be a fake. Its also pretty important to not that the kid has been pointing the gun at people, but no shots have been fired, reports made of threatening behaviour or crimes committed. Its also important to note that the police report from the deputy chief did state that the child did not threaten the officers verbally, or physically. So the problem, I would say isn't with the officer per se, but the failure of the police department, which arguably also put an officer into potentially dangerous situation, which they arguably had a reasonable chance of getting shot (if we accept the counter argument). Bulls***. You're a police officer arriving at a report of a man with a gun, he reaches for his gun, and you honestly think I'm gonna believe you're gonna strike up a conversation???? "I can't explain why officer Jamie died chief, suspect opened fire, and Jamie returned with small talk, but it didn't seem to work... it's a real head scratcher "
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soulboy Lewisham 12 Oct 16 10.56pm | |
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Cheap? I have brought your views to the attention of a number of my American relatives and they all say more or less the same thing: 'He's a Trump groupie'. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing and if he's elected US President next month then you'll be back to have the last word, I'm sure. All the best.
"Deviance is a freedom enjoyed in a city of lightly engaged strangers" |
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7mins In the bush 13 Oct 16 5.27am | |
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Originally posted by soulboy
Cheap? I have brought your views to the attention of a number of my American relatives and they all say more or less the same thing: 'He's a Trump groupie'. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing and if he's elected US President next month then you'll be back to have the last word, I'm sure. All the best. Would you mind telling me "my views" ? I think BLM are not what's needed to solve the problem. Nothing worse than not being true to yourself and being influenced by media/peers etc.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Oct 16 9.24am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Bulls***. You're a police officer arriving at a report of a man with a gun, he reaches for his gun, and you honestly think I'm gonna believe you're gonna strike up a conversation???? "I can't explain why officer Jamie died chief, suspect opened fire, and Jamie returned with small talk, but it didn't seem to work... it's a real head scratcher " I can explain why officer 7mins shot and killed a child, he thought he was in an action movie. Doing 20 years in Attaca, as a cop that shot a child, nasty. I'm going to want all the information, and approach the scene cautiously, appraise the situation, and approach the suspect with caution from a distance.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Oct 16 9.27am | |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Would you mind telling me "my views" ? I think BLM are not what's needed to solve the problem. Nothing worse than not being true to yourself and being influenced by media/peers etc. They aren't, but the police aren't held accountable (collectively or individually) and the standards of response to police shootings is to close ranks, protect the 'force'. Police standards vary dramatically between states, and counties, they're held to less oversight than the FBI, the training, wages and funding are s**t and the recruitment and firing policies exist in such a way as to protect officers careers, rather than the public. That's the problem, that the state can actually address.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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