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General Election 2017
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 21 Apr 17 12.37pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
A healthier workforce is much more productive though... Mental health as important as physical health in that. Sure it's important but I bet that infrastructure projects that stimulate industry growth has a bigger multipler effect. That's my point. There wasn't any global demand when Balls was broadcasting that such projects should be happening. They still aren't, or enough. Well maybe a faster train journey linking London to the north. Should be better rail links around the north instead.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.38pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
What do you mean by "truly socialist"? I'd describe France as a socialist economy and despite what you might read in the press you're more likely to be in work in France than you are in the US. Standards of living in France are generally good and quality of life is good. They have higher levels of productivity than we have and it's a much more egalitarian society. France does have it's problems but you'd be wrong to say it has failed miserably, and the poor have become poorer. The poor in France are much less poor than the poor in the UK. By 'truly' socialist, I more or less mean where the state controls all means of production, distribution and exchange - you know Clause 4 of the old Labour party constitution that Corbyn wants to reinstate.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.40pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
UK from 1945 to 1969 was quite socialist? Welfare state, NHS etc.
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Kermit8  Hevon 21 Apr 17 12.40pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Kerala? Is that a country? Any success examples that we might have heard of? It's self-governing you doofus
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.44pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
By 'truly' socialist, I more or less mean where the state controls all means of production, distribution and exchange - you know Clause 4 of the old Labour party constitution that Corbyn wants to reinstate. That's quite a narrow definition and more communism in my mind. As I said my view is more new Keynesian socialism. For the record Corbyn denied he would do that and given he's been leader for close to 2 years he's had ample opportunity to do so.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.46pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
It's self-governing you doofus I see from Wiki that "From the 1990s, liberalisation of the mixed economy allowed onerous Licence Raj restrictions against capitalism and foreign direct investment to be lightened, leading to economic expansion and an increase in employment."
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.50pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Sure it's important but I bet that infrastructure projects that stimulate industry growth has a bigger multipler effect. That's my point. There wasn't any global demand when Balls was broadcasting that such projects should be happening. They still aren't, or enough. Well maybe a faster train journey linking London to the north. Should be better rail links around the north instead. From a British Heart Foundation report: "The financial cost of mental ill health to British in addition "Sickness absence costs UK businesses an estimated £29bn each year" and "The report calculates that the overall cost to employers of replacing staff in the UK is £4.1bn a year."
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
That's quite a narrow definition and more communism in my mind. As I said my view is more new Keynesian socialism. For the record Corbyn denied he would do that and given he's been leader for close to 2 years he's had ample opportunity to do so. In 2015 he said in an interview: “I think we should talk about what the objectives of the party are, whether that’s restoring Clause Four as it was originally written or it’s a different one. But we shouldn’t shy away from public participation, public investment in industry and public control of the railways.” But his leadership rival Liz K
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.52pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
UK from 1945 to 1969 was quite socialist? Welfare state, NHS etc. We still have a Welfare State and NHS - are we socialist?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 21 Apr 17 12.53pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
There is no economic rationale behind austerity so it can only be ideology or incompetence. What do you mean by poor? My father died when I was 5, I grew up in the 70s. Single parent family with a widow's pension. I have worked since I was 11. We had few of the equivalent luxuries that now mean you are considered poor if you don't have them. I also lived through the 3 day week yar de yar de yar you know the story decline of textiles, mining and steel etc Maggie came along just before I was finishing school. The Tories helped make me believe that I could do better, that I could achieve something. So I had to move, so what? What a lot of people on the left fail to realise is that the Tories have been aspirational. That's not to say they haven't made huge mistakes or f***ed people over at times but generally the appeal to many working people is the fact that they can make better. e.g. Mondeo man Before you start thinking I am a tory boy, I have actually only voted Conservative 3 or 4 times, I tend to be centre right in outlook. The last few elections I have voted Lib Dem, historically where my family have politically been.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.56pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Because of their helping hand everywhere all through life France's debt is rising and rising, when I last looked a couple of years ago. What were you looking at out of interest? True they have higher debt than us, but not by much and it's been growing a lot less quickly than our debt. This means that they have a lower deficit than we do. I will upload a household debt chart in a minute as HOL won't let me upload 2 at once.
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Attachment: | CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.56pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
What were you looking at out of interest? True they have higher debt than us, but not by much and it's been growing a lot less quickly than our debt. This means that they have a lower deficit than we do. I will upload a household debt chart in a minute as HOL won't let me upload 2 at once.
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