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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Stirlingsays  24 Jun 23 7.25pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Utterly bizarre 24 hours. The talk of a 'coup' was ludicrous from the get-go for all kinds of reasons but even so, this is now beyond bizarre. I still see no upside to Wagner. They return to their barracks and Putin will move against them. He has to. All I can think of is that Prigozhin was conned into thinking that there would be a mass uprising from the Russian army in his favour. And he realised it was not happening hence the backtracking. But who knows? A crazy day in what is an insane situation. Unlikely during the war. Wagner were set to be returning to the front for August 5th. Apparently Wagner have been given security and other guarantees. Maybe, they will be fighting and armed from Belarus and not interacting with the main Russian army. However, Prigozhin will no doubt be watching his back....as bullets have a tendency to go stray.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 24 Jun 23 7.30pm |
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Russia doing Russia things, I give in. Edited by Ouzo Dan (24 Jun 2023 7.30pm)
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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| Stirlingsays 24 Jun 23 7.34pm |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
Russia doing Russia things, I give in. Edited by Ouzo Dan (24 Jun 2023 7.30pm) Pretty much.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 24 Jun 23 9.06pm |
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Not sure about the aircraft claims. Lot of hype around today. But I suspect that the truth will still be bloody weird. Putin has to take out the head of the Wagner snake. You cannot allow this to slide.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Grumbles 24 Jun 23 9.34pm |
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Looks like a pantomime de-escalation between the antagonists. Russian army units were beginning to mutiny, hence the use of a puppet to try and save face on both sides. There is a Russian cultural trait to lie to your face from a position of power, is this one? So nothing is set in stone. Putin has what he needs time. I've heard that part of the deal is Prighozin leaves Russia and if i was Prighozin i guess I would live in a Central African Republic bungalow for the rest of my relatively short life.
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| Matov 24 Jun 23 9.38pm |
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Originally posted by Grumbles
Russian army units were beginning to mutiny, hence the use of a puppet to try and save face on both sides. But if Russian Army units were beginning to mutiny then that would mean Wagner were succeeding.The far more logical explanation for Wagner backing off is that the Russian Army were not changing over to them. I accept that nothing is certain at the moment but your statement makes little sense.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Grumbles 24 Jun 23 10.04pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
But if Russian Army units were beginning to mutiny then that would mean Wagner were succeeding.The far more logical explanation for Wagner backing off is that the Russian Army were not changing over to them. I accept that nothing is certain at the moment but your statement makes little sense. It was airborne regiments (at least the 217th regiment of the 98th ) that I saw, the source was a authoritarian right wing nationalist media source so unreliable. But there must be a wider political reason why Putin made any agreement. As you have seen neither party cares for the life of an individual soldier, if it was a case of the status quo remaining stable....Putin would win not with optimal media cachet with fighting on the streets of Russia, but he would win. Perhaps Prigozhin realised he was in a popularist dichotomy in the fact that as a traitor to Mother Russia he would have to sledgehammer his own head.
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| Grumbles 24 Jun 23 10.08pm |
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Perhaps the deal is the puppet Alexander Lukashenko's position? Supposedly in ill health.
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| Stirlingsays 24 Jun 23 10.52pm |
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Criminal case on armed rebellion against Prigozhin will be terminated - Peskov During the negotiations, an agreement was reached that the Wagner PMC fighters would go to field camps, and Prigozhin himself would leave for Belarus. Prigozhin has left the headquarters of the Southern Military District in Rostov-on-Don together with PMC Wagner.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 24 Jun 23 10.55pm |
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It was a civil bore.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Attachment: cryrst  The garden of England 25 Jun 23 4.34am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It was a civil bore. If that was a top trump card you wouldn’t want it
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| Stirlingsays 25 Jun 23 4.56am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
If that was a top trump card you wouldn’t want it No you wouldn't. Wagner took out seven Russian aircraft in one day seemingly with no losses. There is considerable anger in the Russian military with them as 20 specialised pilots were killed. These included three Mi-8 MTPRs, specialised scarce electronic warfare helicopters. They also shot down an IL-18-based air control center with the entire crew. I see Wagner are being relocated to Belarus, being paid and armed from Russia but operating there and attacking from the north....can't see them working with the main Russian military again....just as likely to attack each other. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jun 2023 4.57am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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