I'd say that societal reaction to trans people certainly rationally has always played into their mental health issues in a significant way. That is certainly not to say that everyone with gender issues should seek to physically alter themselves, though for some it is possibly the closest they're going to get to an answer.

It's one of those issues that has become so hyper politicised in all directions, that if someone feels this way, at this point in time I can barely blame them for offing themselves due to others input or their own turmoil. There are genuinely people who are 'never' going to feel comfortable in their own body 'as is' regardless of any therapy. There's a F2M person in my extended family, who would be a good example of this. His life was hell prior and now he's well adjusted, but does not discuss this issue with most (on account that most do not know and specifically because their judgement of him would likely be damaging or surplus to requirement).

I do see though that there are those who trivialise or jump on board with a kind of 'today I'm she/them/this/that' passing trend. As such laws to allow people to make quick decisions without scrutiny at a young age are bad in my view. It all gets thrown into the same pile and only the out there or politicised voices are heard, rather than personal stories that explain an individuals outlook and life. It all falls to a backdrop of serious and understandable concerns that womens spaces being treated as something anyone can dip into when they want regardless of motivation or medical history. A perfect storm really.

As with most things in life, some thown in one angled views on a football forum, be it mine or others, may not be much of a fair, full, or reasoned answer to anything and it's always very easy to reduce the complexities of others challenges and experiences when they are not our own.

Edited by MrWhyNot (09 Jan 2023 7.06pm)

For clarity, that may be poor articulation on my behalf MWN and telling of my capacity to communicate succinctly on a football fans forum, or not in the majority of cases - a delusion I do not labour under. I mark you absolutely right as what I was criticising was indeed the hyper-politicisation, hijacking of, and absolutist approach to 'transgenderism'. There was a very good and insightful post a while ago (cannot remember whom) alluding to a situation of a colleague and very similar to the one you have described.

I do not think it possible to absolutely dismiss an individual's claims of being 'transgender'. That we will never know at best but also I would be inclined to believe that there is significant evidence to at least constitute some validity. That would rule out an absolute dismissal of a 'psychological phenomena', if you will, however my opposition is directed primarily towards those who flirt or interfere with this assessment, angling from the other extreme of the spectrum. This is something I believe we are seeing play out in political society and I fear will be of detriment to us all, including those who may have a very genuine basis for finding solace in identifying as Transgender. It is, from my perspective (which I recognise is not an authority by any stretch of the imagination) being reduced to a political or cultural movement as opposed to anything remotely promoted with the interest of individuals at heart. This is seeing common sense fly out of the window, again, just IMO and I fear is on a downwards trajectory in terms of societal impact.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

It is so frustrating that every thread on this site is completely full of opinion, yet devoid of data or actual case studies.

Gender-based victimization, discrimination, bullying, violence, being rejected by the family, friends, and community; harassment by intimate partner, family members, police and public; discrimination and ill treatment at health-care system are the major risk factors that influence the suicidal behavior among transgender persons.

[Link]

Respondents who experienced discrimination or were a victim of violence were more likely to report suicide thoughts and attempts. Respondents who experienced family rejection were also more likely to report attempting suicide. Access to gender-affirming medical care is associated with a lower prevalence of suicide thoughts and attempts.

[Link]

Suicidality is associated with desiring gender affirming surgery in the future, gender based victimisation and institutionalised cissexism. Interventions to increase social inclusion, reduce transphobia and enable access to gender affirming care, particularly surgical interventions, are potential areas of intervention.

[Link]

It’s an internet forum Maple that’s sort of the point.

As for your sources, as with anything loosely within this field, it’s easy to poke holes in , scrutinise, cast doubt over etc. which it is too late in the evening for me to do even if I wanted to. It is also possible to site sources for just about any opinion these days, as it has been, where possible, throughout history. Doesn’t nullify any discussion, opinion of individuals on such things or categorically prove anything however.

You know what, F-it I actually did! Any comment on this?

[Link]

There’s a lot of criticism of this group and a number of notable academics have endorsed, and in some cases been coerced into apologising, for supporting what seems like ‘the other end of the spectrum’. This group is supposedly comprised of academics, amongst others, however I am sceptical yet unaware of the truth in this. But whom to believe? Perhaps we could suggest that there is occasionally bias in academic research and no actual objectivity leading to an absolute, flawless conclusion of everything? Who’d of thought?

‘No child is born in the wrong body’ I must say I tend to agree.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

I think the question should more be, with some people is their view that they are in the wrong body, one that demonstrably is shown to be consistent and very unlikely to change over time. And where that is the case, and a physical intervention is made, is the outcome post that more often a positive one. Clouded in politics now, I'd say that the answer tends to be that it should be an option and that viewing it as universally wrong or negative isn't helpful or accurate. I don't though view the more modern 'respect my pronouns' activist take of these issues as at all helpful as it blurs more lines, and creates a more ephemeral idea of 'gender is nothing, i can look male but say i'm female'. It's more like tourism than a lived reality and creates concerns with womens spaces and the like.

Why has this thread turned into a trans-nonsense thread?