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Badger11 Beckenham 06 Feb 20 8.55am | |
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This is not a defence of Trump but a criticism over the tactics the Democrats have used. The Democrats completely fumbled the ball here. Nixon never actually got to be impeached because the various investigations threw up so much hard evidence that his own party turned on him and made it clear they would impeach so he resigned. Yes Trump has obstructed the house investigation but they failed to find away around that and never had a smoking gun. They knew from the get go that the Republicans had the majority so if they really wanted him impeached they would have to provide damming evidence to get senators to cross the floor. The smart move would have been to open the investigation without constantly talking about impeachment and to see where it lead. When they didn't have the smoking gun they could have quietly dropped it for the time being. Instead they doubled down and expected a republican dominated senate to do the job they had failed to do. That is twice now that the Democrats have tried and failed to remove Trump and they are the ones who are tarnished. Impeachment is always a political process otherwise it would be a trial with a jury. Slinging mud and not backing it up has backfired on them. Mrs Beaton's recipe for Rabbit stew starts with first catch your rabbit, they never did. I don't like the man but this have been a good week for Trump especially after the Iowa fiasco. I think Trump will be re-elected and will continue to screw up, the democrats need to let the red mist clear and go after him only when they have the evidence.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Feb 20 9.45am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You keep telling yourself that. I have no need to convince myself of anything that is true. The US system has looked unfit for purpose for many years to me and has nothing to do with any particular President. On top of that I had no special regard for Clinton and thought there were much better candidates available both on the Democratic and Republican sides than the ones they put up.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Feb 20 9.48am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Gullibility of some of the electorate. As my remark was addressed to the US electorate, and then only to some of them, I have no idea why you are talking about the UK!
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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 20 10.11am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I have no need to convince myself of anything that is true. The US system has looked unfit for purpose for many years to me and has nothing to do with any particular President. On top of that I had no special regard for Clinton and thought there were much better candidates available both on the Democratic and Republican sides than the ones they put up.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Feb 20 10.15am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
This is not a defence of Trump but a criticism over the tactics the Democrats have used. The Democrats completely fumbled the ball here. Nixon never actually got to be impeached because the various investigations threw up so much hard evidence that his own party turned on him and made it clear they would impeach so he resigned. Yes Trump has obstructed the house investigation but they failed to find away around that and never had a smoking gun. They knew from the get go that the Republicans had the majority so if they really wanted him impeached they would have to provide damming evidence to get senators to cross the floor. The smart move would have been to open the investigation without constantly talking about impeachment and to see where it lead. When they didn't have the smoking gun they could have quietly dropped it for the time being. Instead they doubled down and expected a republican dominated senate to do the job they had failed to do. That is twice now that the Democrats have tried and failed to remove Trump and they are the ones who are tarnished. Impeachment is always a political process otherwise it would be a trial with a jury. Slinging mud and not backing it up has backfired on them. Mrs Beaton's recipe for Rabbit stew starts with first catch your rabbit, they never did. I don't like the man but this have been a good week for Trump especially after the Iowa fiasco. I think Trump will be re-elected and will continue to screw up, the democrats need to let the red mist clear and go after him only when they have the evidence. There were many in the Democratic party who were reluctant to go the impeachment route, Pelosi being the most vocal. However there was considerable pressure from their core support to do something about the constant maladministration that Trump was, in their eyes, guilty of. When what appeared to be a blatant misuse of his office for political gain was laid bare they thought that they had no choice other than to impeach. That was their constitutional duty and to fail to do so, because it might back fire politically, would be to lower their integrity to the level of their opponents. They never expected the Republican Senators to act impartially and "do their job". They knew the risks but felt constrained by events. The Senate is now a very different place than in Nixon's time. If those Senators were trying Trump I suspect he too would have been forced to resign. The current lot are lap dogs in comparison. Only Romney seems to have any real integrity left. I don't know why you think this is the second attempt that the Dems have made. He has only been impeached once. So far! The Mueller enquiry was commissioned by the D o J and did not involve Congress in any way. That this has been a bad week for the Dems is obvious. Whether in the end it makes any difference to what happens in November is an open question. It depends much more on who the Dems choose than on Trump because we know what he is like and he isn't going to change.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Feb 20 10.21am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That is your own opinion. An opinion I believe very clearly demonstrates your own preconceptions and prejudices. I know what I have been thinking for many years now. My comments on this are a matter of record, which probably still exist buried deep in years old forum records. I have no need to be concerned about my own prejudices, although they obviously exist. I know what I have said in the past.
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cryrst The garden of England 06 Feb 20 8.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As my remark was addressed to the US electorate, and then only to some of them, I have no idea why you are talking about the UK! Just filling in the blanks as you used the word during your Brexit comments.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 Feb 20 10.09pm | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Just filling in the blanks as you used the word during your Brexit comments. As there weren't any "blanks" those assertions are yours alone. Some can never mean all. It means what it means and nothing else.
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cryrst The garden of England 07 Feb 20 5.59am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As there weren't any "blanks" those assertions are yours alone. Some can never mean all. It means what it means and nothing else. Why then are not all trump voters gullible?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Feb 20 9.42am | |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Why then are not all trump voters gullible? Some would always vote for the Republican candidate and never vote Democrat. Some didn't like either candidate but voted for change in the hope it would work out. Some were gullible and fell for the snake oil salesman promises (lies) from Trump and the campaign of disinformation put out by those who could profit from a Trump presidency.
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.TUX. 07 Feb 20 9.55am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Some would always vote for the Republican candidate and never vote Democrat. Some didn't like either candidate but voted for change in the hope it would work out. Some were gullible and fell for the snake oil salesman promises (lies) from Trump and the campaign of disinformation put out by those who could profit from a Trump presidency. Par for the course in any presidential election.
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Stirlingsays 07 Feb 20 10.20am | |
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There are lots of things Trump does that I don't agree with....mainly because nowadays he's just going for the 'don't knows'. Which I'd imagine is a small section....but it makes sense for both parties....Mind you the Democrats have the unfortunate reality of spending the next few months brown nosing to their radical base....which the rest of the country gets to see on TV....and it's not going to look pretty or very moderate to the 'don't knows'. I'd say the election is still fifty fifty....even with the mess that the Democrats are in....they get a chance purely down to the demographics. However, if Trump wins more of the white vote and quite rightly some of the sensible in the black vote....He could and should win. If I had to bet on it I'd say Trump wins......But it matters who the Democrats end up choosing. I think their best choice of some bad options is Sanders.....I can't see them choosing Bloomberg or Buttigieg......Bloomberg is a billionaire, which they all hate and Buttigieg would lose them a lot of the black and hispanic vote. Biden is too old and seems affected by that age much more than Sanders or Trump himself....and Chief Sitting Bull Warren is too false....and that's saying something. Sanders is their best bet.....If he lives long enough....What is it with Americans and ancient candidates. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Feb 2020 10.23am)
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