Euro 2024

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Euro 2024

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CrazyBadger Ware 01 Jul 24 11.21am
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I think that's very reductionist - I wouldn't rather play open and crash out early, but that's not the only alternative is it? The only other option to how we're playing isn't to go suicidally open - there is a happy medium where we generate more than one shot on target in 90 minutes, but keep some structure and solidity. That's all most people want. We were incredibly lucky yesterday - there is nothing to suggest this current style of play gives us even a reasonable chance of winning the tournament. We are agreeing on this EDN. I would play attacking exciting football, which gives us: 1) enjoyment watching the games (I presume), 2) a shot at winning the tournament. The drivel served up so far in this tournament would not win a raffle. 0 shots on target wins noone nothing. We were better yesterday than in the Groups - we actually created things from time to time. but when we did, we couldn't hit the target. so that's something. not much better, mind. The amount of badly hit crosses, crosses too close to the goal keeper, mis*** shots and passes to the opposition was alarming. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 01 Jul 24 11.21am

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I think that's very reductionist - I wouldn't rather play open and crash out early, but that's not the only alternative is it?

The only other option to how we're playing isn't to go suicidally open - there is a happy medium where we generate more than one shot on target in 90 minutes, but keep some structure and solidity. That's all most people want.

We were incredibly lucky yesterday - there is nothing to suggest this current style of play gives us even a reasonable chance of winning the tournament.

We are agreeing on this EDN.

I would play attacking exciting football, which gives us: 1) enjoyment watching the games (I presume), 2) a shot at winning the tournament.

The drivel served up so far in this tournament would not win a raffle. 0 shots on target wins noone nothing.

We were better yesterday than in the Groups - we actually created things from time to time. but when we did, we couldn't hit the target. so that's something.
not much better, mind. The amount of badly hit crosses, crosses too close to the goal keeper, mis*** shots and passes to the opposition was alarming.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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YT Oxford 01 Jul 24 11.26am
Originally posted by silvertop Yes it was, but he was card happy early doors and then seemed to lose interest. Our players were booted pillar to post - often by the same man (who was on a yellow) - with no punishment. Consistency between refs is impossible. Consistency from the same ref within a match is all we ask. BTW, Guehi totally stiffed by Trippier on that card. As I've already explained, my comment was in response to someone immediately (ie not with hindsight) claiming that MG's yellow was harsh, and furthermore I also said that he'd been stitched up by Trippier. However, regarding the inconsistency point, unfortunately there is often such inconsistency in tournaments such as these - often because officials are slightly out of their depth and probably because of some kind of conscious or unconscious bias. England should have learned long ago that they are unlikely to receive any favours from referees; a quick re-watch of the final of the last Euros would be a good starting point. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 01 Jul 24 11.26am

Originally posted by silvertop

Yes it was, but he was card happy early doors and then seemed to lose interest. Our players were booted pillar to post - often by the same man (who was on a yellow) - with no punishment.

Consistency between refs is impossible. Consistency from the same ref within a match is all we ask.

BTW, Guehi totally stiffed by Trippier on that card.

As I've already explained, my comment was in response to someone immediately (ie not with hindsight) claiming that MG's yellow was harsh, and furthermore I also said that he'd been stitched up by Trippier.

However, regarding the inconsistency point, unfortunately there is often such inconsistency in tournaments such as these - often because officials are slightly out of their depth and probably because of some kind of conscious or unconscious bias. England should have learned long ago that they are unlikely to receive any favours from referees; a quick re-watch of the final of the last Euros would be a good starting point.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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silvertop Portishead 01 Jul 24 11.42am
Originally posted by CrazyBadger We are agreeing on this EDN. I would play attacking exciting football, which gives us: 1) enjoyment watching the games (I presume), 2) a shot at winning the tournament. The drivel served up so far in this tournament would not win a raffle. 0 shots on target wins noone nothing. We were better yesterday than in the Groups - we actually created things from time to time. but when we did, we couldn't hit the target. so that's something. not much better, mind. The amount of badly hit crosses, crosses too close to the goal keeper, mis* shots and passes to the opposition was alarming.** ...from players who do no such thing for their clubs week in week out. It was unfathomable. Aside from such bizarre and uncharacteristic errors, I still see the dross as largely energy related. Our players: 50+ games a season in the cold. Theirs: 30+ games in relative warmth... Then we have to play an intensive 7 game tournament in the full heat of summer. We start as losers and history has proven that. Every 2 years. Unless we play at home. The only way is to conserve the energy. However, it is a high risk ploy that went horribly wrong yesterday. Not only have the Swiss got the extra day, but we had to play the extra 30 minutes. And we lost a key player through suspension, something we haven't done in recent tournaments. Now we have to play to our best for the next game. No choice. You lot might actually be served up more what you (and I) want.
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silvertop

Portishead 01 Jul 24 11.42am

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

We are agreeing on this EDN.

I would play attacking exciting football, which gives us: 1) enjoyment watching the games (I presume), 2) a shot at winning the tournament.

The drivel served up so far in this tournament would not win a raffle. 0 shots on target wins noone nothing.

We were better yesterday than in the Groups - we actually created things from time to time. but when we did, we couldn't hit the target. so that's something.
not much better, mind. The amount of badly hit crosses, crosses too close to the goal keeper, mis*** shots and passes to the opposition was alarming.

...from players who do no such thing for their clubs week in week out. It was unfathomable.

Aside from such bizarre and uncharacteristic errors, I still see the dross as largely energy related. Our players: 50+ games a season in the cold. Theirs: 30+ games in relative warmth...

Then we have to play an intensive 7 game tournament in the full heat of summer. We start as losers and history has proven that. Every 2 years. Unless we play at home.

The only way is to conserve the energy. However, it is a high risk ploy that went horribly wrong yesterday. Not only have the Swiss got the extra day, but we had to play the extra 30 minutes. And we lost a key player through suspension, something we haven't done in recent tournaments.

Now we have to play to our best for the next game. No choice. You lot might actually be served up more what you (and I) want.

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dreamwaverider London 01 Jul 24 12.12pm
Last night confirmed one obvious thing that we have all been ignoring and certainly not accepting. England (a la Wokegate) style of football is what we are playing. Nothing is going to be changed at all. Boring super defensive lacking any imagination. If we are lucky enough to get the lead then really sit deep and defend. Exactly how we play every game. It's why Wharton is not being used. Because he doesn't do pass back. Last night as soon as we went one up in extra time, we immediately went to defend. It's how Southgate does it. It's how he believes we will win. There has become a massive stand off between his group of players and their followers. There is a hostility emerged between the media, the fans, in fact most football lovers v the England team and their management. Last night is the first time that it has dawned on me. We do have a system and it is not what our followers want. It's very similar to Roy ball and it sucks. But it is what it is. Our players, led by Bellingham , have now chosen hostility and arrogance towards our stadium fans and the press. They clearly do not get, that we do not like how they are playing. But it is what it is and Southgate is not going to change it. I suspect our involvement may end v Switzerland, but who knows. One thing for sure is our style of play will not change so long as Southgate remains in charge. It sucks and they can keep it. Long live Glasner. Edited by dreamwaverider (01 Jul 2024 12.15pm)
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dreamwaverider

London 01 Jul 24 12.12pm

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Last night confirmed one obvious thing that we have all been ignoring and certainly not accepting.
England (a la Wokegate) style of football is what we are playing. Nothing is going to be changed at all. Boring super defensive lacking any imagination. If we are lucky enough to get the lead then really sit deep and defend.
Exactly how we play every game. It's why Wharton is not being used. Because he doesn't do pass back.
Last night as soon as we went one up in extra time, we immediately went to defend.
It's how Southgate does it. It's how he believes we will win. There has become a massive stand off between his group of players and their followers. There is a hostility emerged between the media, the fans, in fact most football lovers v the England team and their management.
Last night is the first time that it has dawned on me. We do have a system and it is not what our followers want. It's very similar to Roy ball and it sucks. But it is what it is.
Our players, led by Bellingham , have now chosen hostility and arrogance towards our stadium fans and the press. They clearly do not get, that we do not like how they are playing. But it is what it is and Southgate is not going to change it.
I suspect our involvement may end v Switzerland, but who knows. One thing for sure is our style of play will not change so long as Southgate remains in charge.
It sucks and they can keep it. Long live Glasner.

Edited by dreamwaverider (01 Jul 2024 12.15pm)

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dreamwaverider London 01 Jul 24 12.20pm
The football I love is what Glasner has brought to Palace. Royball has gone. Happy days. I am loving watching Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and others. Fast, quick moving, super skilful, dynamic. Goal scoring. Just like Glasner Palace. I really hope one of these go on to win this cup and show the football world this is the way forwards.
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dreamwaverider

London 01 Jul 24 12.20pm

The football I love is what Glasner has brought to Palace. Royball has gone. Happy days.

I am loving watching Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and others. Fast, quick moving, super skilful, dynamic. Goal scoring. Just like Glasner Palace.
I really hope one of these go on to win this cup and show the football world this is the way forwards.

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The Dolphin 01 Jul 24 12.20pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger We have reached this stage because our group was as easy as you could hope for, and we struggled past a team that is many places below us in the rankings in the first knock out round. We have been absolutely dreadful. I wonder if Southgate would have even put Palmer on had Trippier not got a knock. We would still be out but for a long throw, a flick and one bit of quality. Next time, we are playing a team of quality and unless that clueless fool changes something, we will be going out. He has to start Palmer. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Eze playing as a left back. THIS!
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The Dolphin

01 Jul 24 12.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

We have reached this stage because our group was as easy as you could hope for, and we struggled past a team that is many places below us in the rankings in the first knock out round.

We have been absolutely dreadful.

I wonder if Southgate would have even put Palmer on had Trippier not got a knock.
We would still be out but for a long throw, a flick and one bit of quality.

Next time, we are playing a team of quality and unless that clueless fool changes something, we will be going out.

He has to start Palmer.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Eze playing as a left back.

THIS!

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Jul 24 12.24pm
Originally posted by dreamwaverider The football I love is what Glasner has brought to Palace. Royball has gone. Happy days. I am loving watching Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and others. Fast, quick moving, super skilful, dynamic. Goal scoring. Just like Glasner Palace. I really hope one of these go on to win this cup and show the football world this is the way forwards. I think we can safely say it won't be England so you'll probably get your wish. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 01 Jul 24 12.24pm

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The football I love is what Glasner has brought to Palace. Royball has gone. Happy days.

I think we can safely say it won't be England so you'll probably get your wish.

Red and Blue Army!

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YT Oxford 01 Jul 24 12.30pm
Originally posted by dreamwaverider The football I love is what Glasner has brought to Palace. Royball has gone. Happy days. I am loving watching Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and others. Fast, quick moving, super skilful, dynamic. Goal scoring. Just like Glasner Palace. I really hope one of these go on to win this cup and show the football world this is the way forwards. I really hope one of these DOESN'T, therefore Palace under OG can continue to march forward against the continuing cautious and over-defensive trend Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 01 Jul 24 12.30pm

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

The football I love is what Glasner has brought to Palace. Royball has gone. Happy days.

I am loving watching Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France and others. Fast, quick moving, super skilful, dynamic. Goal scoring. Just like Glasner Palace.
I really hope one of these go on to win this cup and show the football world this is the way forwards.

I really hope one of these DOESN'T, therefore Palace under OG can continue to march forward against the continuing cautious and over-defensive trend

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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CrazyBadger Ware 01 Jul 24 1.33pm
The thing That got me was at half time, the world was screaming for changes and with 0 shots on target, none were made. At 60 mins - the traditional time for a sub, with 0 shots on target, none were made. At 80 mins, with 0 shots on target, and one sub made out of necessity, Southgate still thought that this group could get us out of the mess they'd made for themselves. at 84 and then 94 mins changes were made. still with 0 shots on target, only then did we see some desire. (coincedence that we scored when Foden was removed??) It's trust in his starting line up to a point where he obviously doesn't trust the subs. Must be proper frustrating to be a sub on a Gareth Southgate bench. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 01 Jul 24 1.33pm

The thing That got me was at half time, the world was screaming for changes and with 0 shots on target, none were made.

At 60 mins - the traditional time for a sub, with 0 shots on target, none were made.

At 80 mins, with 0 shots on target, and one sub made out of necessity, Southgate still thought that this group could get us out of the mess they'd made for themselves.

at 84 and then 94 mins changes were made. still with 0 shots on target, only then did we see some desire. (coincedence that we scored when Foden was removed??)

It's trust in his starting line up to a point where he obviously doesn't trust the subs. Must be proper frustrating to be a sub on a Gareth Southgate bench.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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MrRobbo Chaldon 01 Jul 24 2.35pm
Originally posted by silvertop You don't have to be particularly erudite to expound a notion that formulaic. And for the record, you can easily present an argument to counter that accepted wisdom. Thus, Slovakia played a level that was Championship at best. He has played around that level for enough to know how to cope with it. The rest of the team were having to play economic football in a style less familiar to them. And did you see how long it took him to adapt to the Premiership. The highest level of football in the world. Mere moments. And don't give me that rot about the international game being an even bigger step up. Top 6 clubs have learned to play fringe squad players for even the ECL in order to ensure some of their best players are ready for the sterner task of Wolves away at the weekend. The only difference is pressure, and he has evidenced no frailty to date? I am happy he is not playing as the international scene has a tendency to return crocks. However, partnering him with Rice would be a superb combo. Might thoughts entirely. I wont have it that this is a step up in quality, and as you said, there is nothing to suggest that he would crack under the pressure. I am now certain that the issue with this team is Rice, and as a result the CM as a whole. Wharton and Mainoo would represent a dynamic, technically gifted CM.
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 01 Jul 24 2.35pm

Originally posted by silvertop

You don't have to be particularly erudite to expound a notion that formulaic.

And for the record, you can easily present an argument to counter that accepted wisdom.

Thus, Slovakia played a level that was Championship at best. He has played around that level for enough to know how to cope with it. The rest of the team were having to play economic football in a style less familiar to them.

And did you see how long it took him to adapt to the Premiership. The highest level of football in the world. Mere moments.

And don't give me that rot about the international game being an even bigger step up. Top 6 clubs have learned to play fringe squad players for even the ECL in order to ensure some of their best players are ready for the sterner task of Wolves away at the weekend. The only difference is pressure, and he has evidenced no frailty to date?

I am happy he is not playing as the international scene has a tendency to return crocks. However, partnering him with Rice would be a superb combo.

Might thoughts entirely. I wont have it that this is a step up in quality, and as you said, there is nothing to suggest that he would crack under the pressure.

I am now certain that the issue with this team is Rice, and as a result the CM as a whole. Wharton and Mainoo would represent a dynamic, technically gifted CM.

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MrRobbo Chaldon 01 Jul 24 2.36pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger The thing That got me was at half time, the world was screaming for changes and with 0 shots on target, none were made. At 60 mins - the traditional time for a sub, with 0 shots on target, none were made. At 80 mins, with 0 shots on target, and one sub made out of necessity, Southgate still thought that this group could get us out of the mess they'd made for themselves. at 84 and then 94 mins changes were made. still with 0 shots on target, only then did we see some desire. (coincedence that we scored when Foden was removed??) It's trust in his starting line up to a point where he obviously doesn't trust the subs. Must be proper frustrating to be a sub on a Gareth Southgate bench. Its baffling isn't it. Especially considering how well Gordon did when he came on last match. Why wouldn't he be the 60 min go to?!
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 01 Jul 24 2.36pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

The thing That got me was at half time, the world was screaming for changes and with 0 shots on target, none were made.

At 60 mins - the traditional time for a sub, with 0 shots on target, none were made.

At 80 mins, with 0 shots on target, and one sub made out of necessity, Southgate still thought that this group could get us out of the mess they'd made for themselves.

at 84 and then 94 mins changes were made. still with 0 shots on target, only then did we see some desire. (coincedence that we scored when Foden was removed??)

It's trust in his starting line up to a point where he obviously doesn't trust the subs. Must be proper frustrating to be a sub on a Gareth Southgate bench.

Its baffling isn't it. Especially considering how well Gordon did when he came on last match. Why wouldn't he be the 60 min go to?!

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 01 Jul 24 2.56pm
Originally posted by MrRobbo Might thoughts entirely. I wont have it that this is a step up in quality, and as you said, there is nothing to suggest that he would crack under the pressure. I am now certain that the issue with this team is Rice, and as a result the CM as a whole. Wharton and Mainoo would represent a dynamic, technically gifted CM. There isn’t a single issue making us this poor - I think that’s pointless framing. Rice was fine yesterday - there are many bigger problems in our approach than him.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 01 Jul 24 2.56pm

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Originally posted by MrRobbo

Might thoughts entirely. I wont have it that this is a step up in quality, and as you said, there is nothing to suggest that he would crack under the pressure.

I am now certain that the issue with this team is Rice, and as a result the CM as a whole. Wharton and Mainoo would represent a dynamic, technically gifted CM.

There isn’t a single issue making us this poor - I think that’s pointless framing.

Rice was fine yesterday - there are many bigger problems in our approach than him.

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