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silvertop Portishead 21 Oct 22 4.53pm
Originally posted by HKOwen It's great entertainment watching the remoaners realise the return of Johnson is a possibility. As one of our HK Palace bretheren likes to say, Labour are shaking like a s***ting dog. Boris did not make the Cincinnatus and Terminator references for nothing. The Conservative big beasts now have to make a decision on who will best effect damage limitation at the next GE, and the Red Wall just won't turn out for Sunak. The B as PM, Braverman as Home secretary and Kemi as levelling up has a chance of doing something within 2 years. Getting out of the ECHR and doing something about the channel crossings is key. If Boris can make a mea culpa speech then it will go down well, if he takes the stance of you need me and I won't change then trouble brews immediately The economic policy will not be that different to Labour initially, Boris' achilles heel is the net zero stuff cost on people. He needs to keep the Mrs in check and out of the decisions. I wonder if Cummings has any grenades left to throw? Interesting times, and Starmer still cannot say a woman is an adult female. He did say this week: "Starmer speaking at a Pink News event said tougher hate crime rules needed so every LGBT hate crime treated as an aggravated offence. And announces a Labour govt would appoint an international LGBT rights envoy." So he is concentrating on the big issues of the day where is Moggmentum when you ned it Edited by HKOwen (21 Oct 2022 3.46pm) If this (Boris) reflects Tory thinking, then it is hubris that may come back to haunt. 2019 was a landslide because of Brexit and wholly because of Brexit. BJ is essentially a consequence of Brexit and completely aligned to it. While many people still want to get it "done" they are now more concerned about paying their mortgage than having a giant teddy bear taking on the EU. True, he may adapt. However, I think he is irretrievably welded to a concept that will largely be considered passe come January 2024. Moreover, his integrity has been shattered; and any recurrence (which is bound to happen given his gaff-prone nature) will stir up the party once more. In this respect, need I mention the upcoming standards report on him lying to parliament. He has already been prosecuted for a criminal offence. Indeed, the lasting image people will take with them will not be him being all jovial and electable and knocking Labour for six at PMQs, but the Queen sitting alone in black grieving her dead husband while he quaffed beers at a party he then disingenuously denied attending. You also fail to see that Tory impregnability on the economy has been dealt a death blow, including for the period under which he was PM. OK, much of that (but far from all) is caused by environmental factors outside any government's control. That said Owen, your politics are partial, but you are not daft. But you must be acutely aware that a significant number of voters are. Few will see the external shocks. Most will only see the party that was at the wheel when the ship went down. And if you want a taster, before all the BJ mess emerged and long before Truss bolloxed it all up and made the party even less electable, note the byelections in Taunton and up north (?) which were a safe and long-standing Tory seat, and a Red Wall 2019 win respectively. One comfortably returned to red; the other saw the biggest swing ever to the Lib Dems; both under Boris. As to Labour, you can dwell on their woke cobblers which will not help them. But while it will repel you and I when it comes to putting the cross in the box, it will not repel most others who will only see "not Tory". Elect Boris and metropolitan England, all of the North and most of Wales will be Red; north of the wall will be SNP; and large swathes of the South will turn yellow as the Lib Dems collect dozens of scalps without having to do a thing.
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silvertop

Portishead 21 Oct 22 4.53pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

It's great entertainment watching the remoaners realise the return of Johnson is a possibility.

As one of our HK Palace bretheren likes to say, Labour are shaking like a s***ting dog.

Boris did not make the Cincinnatus and Terminator references for nothing.

The Conservative big beasts now have to make a decision on who will best effect damage limitation at the next GE, and the Red Wall just won't turn out for Sunak. The B as PM, Braverman as Home secretary and Kemi as levelling up has a chance of doing something within 2 years. Getting out of the ECHR and doing something about the channel crossings is key.

If Boris can make a mea culpa speech then it will go down well, if he takes the stance of you need me and I won't change then trouble brews immediately

The economic policy will not be that different to Labour initially, Boris' achilles heel is the net zero stuff cost on people. He needs to keep the Mrs in check and out of the decisions.

I wonder if Cummings has any grenades left to throw?

Interesting times, and Starmer still cannot say a woman is an adult female.

He did say this week:
"Starmer speaking at a Pink News event said tougher hate crime rules needed so every LGBT hate crime treated as an aggravated offence.

And announces a Labour govt would appoint an international LGBT rights envoy."

So he is concentrating on the big issues of the day

where is Moggmentum when you ned it

Edited by HKOwen (21 Oct 2022 3.46pm)

If this (Boris) reflects Tory thinking, then it is hubris that may come back to haunt.

2019 was a landslide because of Brexit and wholly because of Brexit. BJ is essentially a consequence of Brexit and completely aligned to it. While many people still want to get it "done" they are now more concerned about paying their mortgage than having a giant teddy bear taking on the EU. True, he may adapt. However, I think he is irretrievably welded to a concept that will largely be considered passe come January 2024.

Moreover, his integrity has been shattered; and any recurrence (which is bound to happen given his gaff-prone nature) will stir up the party once more.

In this respect, need I mention the upcoming standards report on him lying to parliament. He has already been prosecuted for a criminal offence. Indeed, the lasting image people will take with them will not be him being all jovial and electable and knocking Labour for six at PMQs, but the Queen sitting alone in black grieving her dead husband while he quaffed beers at a party he then disingenuously denied attending.

You also fail to see that Tory impregnability on the economy has been dealt a death blow, including for the period under which he was PM. OK, much of that (but far from all) is caused by environmental factors outside any government's control. That said Owen, your politics are partial, but you are not daft. But you must be acutely aware that a significant number of voters are. Few will see the external shocks. Most will only see the party that was at the wheel when the ship went down.

And if you want a taster, before all the BJ mess emerged and long before Truss bolloxed it all up and made the party even less electable, note the byelections in Taunton and up north (?) which were a safe and long-standing Tory seat, and a Red Wall 2019 win respectively. One comfortably returned to red; the other saw the biggest swing ever to the Lib Dems; both under Boris.

As to Labour, you can dwell on their woke cobblers which will not help them. But while it will repel you and I when it comes to putting the cross in the box, it will not repel most others who will only see "not Tory".

Elect Boris and metropolitan England, all of the North and most of Wales will be Red; north of the wall will be SNP; and large swathes of the South will turn yellow as the Lib Dems collect dozens of scalps without having to do a thing.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 21 Oct 22 4.54pm
The last two is still up for grabs. In terms of the Red Wall seats retention, IMO Boris might get some, Mordaunt might get a few, Sunak won't get any. The other thing is Labours lurch to wokeness may well come home to roost outside the metropolitan areas. My friends in the North who would supposedly be Labour voters see Starmer as someone who can't say what a woman is and still has Saville baggage. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 21 Oct 22 4.54pm

The last two is still up for grabs. In terms of the Red Wall seats retention, IMO Boris might get some, Mordaunt might get a few, Sunak won't get any.

The other thing is Labours lurch to wokeness may well come home to roost outside the metropolitan areas. My friends in the North who would supposedly be Labour voters see Starmer as someone who can't say what a woman is and still has Saville baggage.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Midlands Eagle 21 Oct 22 4.55pm
Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer I agree Willo, just can't see Mordaunt making the cut. The big question for me is who will her supporters turn to once she's out of the running? The whole business is a shambles, but fascinating all the same. This one doesn't work that way as the MPs will probably only have the one round of voting and if Penny doesn't make the cut then the Members get to vote on the remaining two
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Midlands Eagle

21 Oct 22 4.55pm

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Originally posted by Palace Old Geezer

I agree Willo, just can't see Mordaunt making the cut. The big question for me is who will her supporters turn to once she's out of the running?

The whole business is a shambles, but fascinating all the same.

This one doesn't work that way as the MPs will probably only have the one round of voting and if Penny doesn't make the cut then the Members get to vote on the remaining two

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Oct 22 5.00pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle This one doesn't work that way as the MPs will probably only have the one round of voting and if Penny doesn't make the cut then the Members get to vote on the remaining two The likelihood is that only Sunak and Johnson will attain the 100 nominations and Mordaunt will be eliminated. There of course is the unlikely possibility that the person who finishes in 2nd place could decide to withdraw in which case the membership will not be involved. I have been in communication with an array of members, across constituencies, and most indicated they would back Sunak over Johnson. The narrative I have perused is that the membership as a whole would vote for Johnson. Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 5.03pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Oct 22 5.00pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

This one doesn't work that way as the MPs will probably only have the one round of voting and if Penny doesn't make the cut then the Members get to vote on the remaining two

The likelihood is that only Sunak and Johnson will attain the 100 nominations and Mordaunt will be eliminated.

There of course is the unlikely possibility that the person who finishes in 2nd place could decide to withdraw in which case the membership will not be involved.

I have been in communication with an array of members, across constituencies, and most indicated they would back Sunak over Johnson. The narrative I have perused is that the membership as a whole would vote for Johnson.

Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 5.03pm)

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HKOwen Hong Kong 21 Oct 22 5.02pm
Originally posted by silvertop If this (Boris) reflects Tory thinking, then it is hubris that may come back to haunt. 2019 was a landslide because of Brexit and wholly because of Brexit. BJ is essentially a consequence of Brexit and completely aligned to it. While many people still want to get it "done" they are now more concerned about paying their mortgage than having a giant teddy bear taking on the EU. True, he may adapt. However, I think he is irretrievably welded to a concept that will largely be considered passe come January 2024. Moreover, his integrity has been shattered; and any recurrence (which is bound to happen given his gaff-prone nature) will stir up the party once more. In this respect, need I mention the upcoming standards report on him lying to parliament. He has already been prosecuted for a criminal offence. Indeed, the lasting image people will take with them will not be him being all jovial and electable and knocking Labour for six at PMQs, but the Queen sitting alone in black grieving her dead husband while he quaffed beers at a party he then disingenuously denied attending. You also fail to see that Tory impregnability on the economy has been dealt a death blow, including for the period under which he was PM. OK, much of that (but far from all) is caused by environmental factors outside any government's control. That said Owen, your politics are partial, but you are not daft. But you must be acutely aware that a significant number of voters are. Few will see the external shocks. Most will only see the party that was at the wheel when the ship went down. And if you want a taster, before all the BJ mess emerged and long before Truss bolloxed it all up and made the party even less electable, note the byelections in Taunton and up north (?) which were a safe and long-standing Tory seat, and a Red Wall 2019 win respectively. One comfortably returned to red; the other saw the biggest swing ever to the Lib Dems; both under Boris. As to Labour, you can dwell on their woke cobblers which will not help them. But while it will repel you and I when it comes to putting the cross in the box, it will not repel most others who will only see "not Tory". Elect Boris and metropolitan England, all of the North and most of Wales will be Red; north of the wall will be SNP; and large swathes of the South will turn yellow as the Lib Dems collect dozens of scalps without having to do a thing. How patronising to say many voters are daft, and you have the nerve to talk of hubris. Two years is a long time in politics. I don't really care too much now as I think the UK is broken beyond repair, I feel sorry for my kids who are in the UK as young adults.I would prefer to see my old fashioned values around family, law and order, education etc represented by someone in Westminster for all those in the UK who may have similar views to me. And again, your patronising attitude needs some attention I suggest. This was very much in evidence after 2019 when the SWG Corbynistas spouted the electorate didn't under stand the manifesto. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 21 Oct 22 5.02pm

Originally posted by silvertop

If this (Boris) reflects Tory thinking, then it is hubris that may come back to haunt.

Moreover, his integrity has been shattered; and any recurrence (which is bound to happen given his gaff-prone nature) will stir up the party once more.

How patronising to say many voters are daft, and you have the nerve to talk of hubris.

Two years is a long time in politics.

I don't really care too much now as I think the UK is broken beyond repair, I feel sorry for my kids who are in the UK as young adults.I would prefer to see my old fashioned values around family, law and order, education etc represented by someone in Westminster for all those in the UK who may have similar views to me.

And again, your patronising attitude needs some attention I suggest.

This was very much in evidence after 2019 when the SWG Corbynistas spouted the electorate didn't under stand the manifesto.

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.04pm
Originally posted by silvertop It truly is quite extraordinary that of the 12 years Labour were in power, all Tories have to hit them with is the gold sale. Honestly, it is literally ALL I hear. They never, for instance, refer to the colossal under sale of the formerly nationalized industries or the eye watering losses to the public purse (and corresponding enrichment of the bankers who caused it) following the financial collapse. And these were supposedly the party with economic sense. I am no socialist and did favour both the bail-out and privatisation; but at the correct prices. PFI certainly wasn’t the brightest idea. Still costing billions I think but never mind eh!
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.04pm

Originally posted by silvertop

It truly is quite extraordinary that of the 12 years Labour were in power, all Tories have to hit them with is the gold sale. Honestly, it is literally ALL I hear. They never, for instance, refer to the colossal under sale of the formerly nationalized industries or the eye watering losses to the public purse (and corresponding enrichment of the bankers who caused it) following the financial collapse. And these were supposedly the party with economic sense.

I am no socialist and did favour both the bail-out and privatisation; but at the correct prices.

PFI certainly wasn’t the brightest idea. Still costing billions I think but never mind eh!

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.07pm
Originally posted by Willo The latest figures I have received show Mordaunt well behind Sunak and Johnson in terms of nominations : Sunak 79 Johnson 62 Mordaunt 21 It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that tactical backing could see Mordaunt being backed solely to keep out Johnson but at this juncture it is difficult to see Mordaunt attaining the required 100 nominations. Well if she wants a push from behind I’m the man
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.07pm

Originally posted by Willo

The latest figures I have received show Mordaunt well behind Sunak and Johnson in terms of nominations :

Sunak 79
Johnson 62
Mordaunt 21

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that tactical backing could see Mordaunt being backed solely to keep out Johnson but at this juncture it is difficult to see Mordaunt attaining the required 100 nominations.

Well if she wants a push from behind I’m the man

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.08pm
Originally posted by Glazier#1 that's a typical remark from you. If someone, just as much a citizen of this country as you, criticises this country or the way it's run, you say: "Well, move abroad if you don't like it!" Why should they? It's their country as much as yours and they might well be showing more concern for it than you by attempting to change it for the better. If you love your country and you think it's being badly or undemocratically governed, why shouldn't you voice your concerns in order to try to improve it? But, really, nothing that you write surprises me. It's just more of the same old reactionary stuff. But you can’t help but react to my posts yourself though
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.08pm

Originally posted by Glazier#1

that's a typical remark from you.

If someone, just as much a citizen of this country as you, criticises this country or the way it's run, you say:

"Well, move abroad if you don't like it!"

Why should they? It's their country as much as yours and they might well be showing more concern for it than you by attempting to change it for the better. If you love your country and you think it's being badly or undemocratically governed, why shouldn't you voice your concerns in order to try to improve it?

But, really, nothing that you write surprises me. It's just more of the same old reactionary stuff.

But you can’t help but react to my posts yourself though

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.10pm
Originally posted by HKOwen How patronising to say many voters are daft, and you have the nerve to talk of hubris. Two years is a long time in politics. I don't really care too much now as I think the UK is broken beyond repair, I feel sorry for my kids who are in the UK as young adults.I would prefer to see my old fashioned values around family, law and order, education etc represented by someone in Westminster for all those in the UK who may have similar views to me. And again, your patronising attitude needs some attention I suggest. This was very much in evidence after 2019 when the SWG Corbynistas spouted the electorate didn't under stand the manifesto. Talking of manifestos and policies where is labour’s. If they’re so keen for a GE show us why, put up or shut up starmer!
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.10pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

How patronising to say many voters are daft, and you have the nerve to talk of hubris.

Two years is a long time in politics.

And again, your patronising attitude needs some attention I suggest.

This was very much in evidence after 2019 when the SWG Corbynistas spouted the electorate didn't under stand the manifesto.

Talking of manifestos and policies where is labour’s.
If they’re so keen for a GE show us why, put up or shut up starmer!

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Oct 22 5.19pm
Originally posted by cryrst But you can’t help but react to my posts yourself though I have had the pleasure of meeting Penny Mordaunt and not only did I find her pulchritudinous, she was warm and friendly and a real lighthouse of joy. Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 5.21pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Oct 22 5.19pm

Originally posted by cryrst

But you can’t help but react to my posts yourself though

I have had the pleasure of meeting Penny Mordaunt and not only did I find her pulchritudinous, she was warm and friendly and a real lighthouse of joy.

Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 5.21pm)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Oct 22 5.33pm
Originally posted by HKOwen It's great entertainment watching the remoaners realise the return of Johnson is a possibility. As one of our HK Palace bretheren likes to say, Labour are shaking like a s***ting dog. Boris did not make the Cincinnatus and Terminator references for nothing. The Conservative big beasts now have to make a decision on who will best effect damage limitation at the next GE, and the Red Wall just won't turn out for Sunak. The B as PM, Braverman as Home secretary and Kemi as levelling up has a chance of doing something within 2 years. Getting out of the ECHR and doing something about the channel crossings is key. If Boris can make a mea culpa speech then it will go down well, if he takes the stance of you need me and I won't change then trouble brews immediately The economic policy will not be that different to Labour initially, Boris' achilles heel is the net zero stuff cost on people. He needs to keep the Mrs in check and out of the decisions. I wonder if Cummings has any grenades left to throw? Interesting times, and Starmer still cannot say a woman is an adult female. He did say this week: "Starmer speaking at a Pink News event said tougher hate crime rules needed so every LGBT hate crime treated as an aggravated offence. And announces a Labour govt would appoint an international LGBT rights envoy." So he is concentrating on the big issues of the day where is Moggmentum when you ned it Edited by HKOwen (21 Oct 2022 3.46pm) What entertains me are the attitudes displayed above. Why people see others solely in their attitude to Brexit beats me. I see them in much broader terms of whether they are competent at their jobs and able to compromise and adapt, rather than be driven simply by ideology. Johnson was never actually a Brexiteer or a Remainer, anyway. He was always a self serving, opportunistic chancer. He ought never be trusted again.If a government of the kind described above comes out of this then the Tories won't just split. They would be finished. I don't want to see a Labour government. I want a stable, responsible, effective government. How we get it is of much less importance than that we do. Going hard to the right has been tried, and failed spectacularly, as it always was destined to. Hopefully the "big beasts" are rather more pragmatic than the post above. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 21 Oct 22 5.33pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

It's great entertainment watching the remoaners realise the return of Johnson is a possibility.

As one of our HK Palace bretheren likes to say, Labour are shaking like a s***ting dog.

Boris did not make the Cincinnatus and Terminator references for nothing.

If Boris can make a mea culpa speech then it will go down well, if he takes the stance of you need me and I won't change then trouble brews immediately

The economic policy will not be that different to Labour initially, Boris' achilles heel is the net zero stuff cost on people. He needs to keep the Mrs in check and out of the decisions.

I wonder if Cummings has any grenades left to throw?

Interesting times, and Starmer still cannot say a woman is an adult female.

He did say this week:
"Starmer speaking at a Pink News event said tougher hate crime rules needed so every LGBT hate crime treated as an aggravated offence.

And announces a Labour govt would appoint an international LGBT rights envoy."

So he is concentrating on the big issues of the day

where is Moggmentum when you ned it

Edited by HKOwen (21 Oct 2022 3.46pm)

What entertains me are the attitudes displayed above. Why people see others solely in their attitude to Brexit beats me. I see them in much broader terms of whether they are competent at their jobs and able to compromise and adapt, rather than be driven simply by ideology.

Johnson was never actually a Brexiteer or a Remainer, anyway. He was always a self serving, opportunistic chancer. He ought never be trusted again.If a government of the kind described above comes out of this then the Tories won't just split. They would be finished.

I don't want to see a Labour government. I want a stable, responsible, effective government. How we get it is of much less importance than that we do. Going hard to the right has been tried, and failed spectacularly, as it always was destined to. Hopefully the "big beasts" are rather more pragmatic than the post above.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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cryrst The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.38pm
Originally posted by Willo I have had the pleasure of meeting Penny Mordaunt and not only did I find her pulchritudinous, she was warm and friendly and a real lighthouse of joy. Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 5.21pm) Back in the day willo. Would ya
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cryrst

The garden of England 21 Oct 22 5.38pm

Originally posted by Willo

I have had the pleasure of meeting Penny Mordaunt and not only did I find her pulchritudinous, she was warm and friendly and a real lighthouse of joy.

Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 5.21pm)

Back in the day willo. Would ya

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