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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.22pm
Originally posted by W12 "It is established that diverse organisations overall perform better" Yes, it is established in propaganda. How we were struggling before diversity came along. It’ll depend on the business they’re in and in some cases it’ll have no relevance whatsoever. Of course in some it will. Advertising for example. Funny you won’t see the bbc have any black faces on the board instead of the white face due for promotion but they won’t mind spunking £100mil on diversity agencies. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.22pm

Originally posted by W12

"It is established that diverse organisations overall perform better"

Yes, it is established in propaganda. How we were struggling before diversity came along.

It’ll depend on the business they’re in and in some cases it’ll have no relevance whatsoever. Of course in some it will. Advertising for example. Funny you won’t see the bbc have any black faces on the board instead of the white face due for promotion but they won’t mind spunking £100mil on diversity agencies.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.24pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Because historically it has been hard for them to climb the ladder, to be senior you would have had to have started climbing at least 30 years ago. Organisations historically were not particularly positive towards people that were 'different'. The activists can’t expect to have lots of seniors ready to take positions instantly and shout shout shout about it and something must be done now. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.24pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Because historically it has been hard for them to climb the ladder, to be senior you would have had to have started climbing at least 30 years ago. Organisations historically were not particularly positive towards people that were 'different'.

The activists can’t expect to have lots of seniors ready to take positions instantly and shout shout shout about it and something must be done now.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.26pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Floyd to be the most popular name next year, after Mohammed of course. Wasn’t Winston the most popular West Indian name? Funny old world. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.26pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Floyd to be the most popular name next year, after Mohammed of course.

Wasn’t Winston the most popular West Indian name? Funny old world.

COYP

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Dec 20 1.26pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Well said! Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK. In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements. That is what I have described. If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking. Can't disagree with most of what you have said. I think that (bold) is where the problem lies, my guess is that the immediate response would be but what if it was deemed that a white, heterosexual, able-bodied young man was perceived to be the better fit, all else being equal? And again, I would guess that the suggestion would be that were that made public knowledge the outcry would be plastered all over the media and used as evidence to confirm 'systemic racism' in society. Edited by Nicholas91 (08 Dec 2020 1.26pm) Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Dec 20 1.26pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

Can't disagree with most of what you have said.

I think that (bold) is where the problem lies, my guess is that the immediate response would be but what if it was deemed that a white, heterosexual, able-bodied young man was perceived to be the better fit, all else being equal? And again, I would guess that the suggestion would be that were that made public knowledge the outcry would be plastered all over the media and used as evidence to confirm 'systemic racism' in society.

Edited by Nicholas91 (08 Dec 2020 1.26pm)

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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W12 08 Dec 20 1.27pm
Originally posted by Mapletree No, in Share prices. But please, feel free to continue with your prejudices. Share prices are driven by diversity? Feel free to continue with your prejudices.
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W12 08 Dec 20 1.27pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

No, in Share prices.

But please, feel free to continue with your prejudices.

Share prices are driven by diversity?

Feel free to continue with your prejudices.

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Teddy Eagle 08 Dec 20 1.27pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The Nazi's use of that salute, the way they forced their people to use it and its associations has meant it has become tainted with evil. In fact it was used by the Romans and by many others previously so was never "owned" by the Germans. That's just a perception. That should have been Hennessy’s defence. Semiotics, perception and history all agree. It is a Nazi salute regardless of its origin. The fasces originated with the Etruscans; doesn’t mean Fascism is owned by them.
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Teddy Eagle

08 Dec 20 1.27pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The Nazi's use of that salute, the way they forced their people to use it and its associations has meant it has become tainted with evil.

In fact it was used by the Romans and by many others previously so was never "owned" by the Germans. That's just a perception.

That should have been Hennessy’s defence.
Semiotics, perception and history all agree. It is a Nazi salute regardless of its origin.
The fasces originated with the Etruscans; doesn’t mean Fascism is owned by them.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.31pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Well said! Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK. In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements. That is what I have described. If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking. A tie break? Hmmm. It’s not a maths exam. There will be things that one will be better at than another. The reason given will be why they made the decision, rather than ‘’We chose him because he likes rugby, cricket, Manchester United, she’s prettier, he/she is black or Asian.’’ There will always be a reason and nobody ties with another candidate. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.31pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

A tie break? Hmmm. It’s not a maths exam. There will be things that one will be better at than another. The reason given will be why they made the decision, rather than ‘’We chose him because he likes rugby, cricket, Manchester United, she’s prettier, he/she is black or Asian.’’ There will always be a reason and nobody ties with another candidate.

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.35pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 Can't disagree with most of what you have said. I think that (bold) is where the problem lies, my guess is that the immediate response would be but what if it was deemed that a white, heterosexual, able-bodied young man was perceived to be the better fit, all else being equal? And again, I would guess that the suggestion would be that were that made public knowledge the outcry would be plastered all over the media and used as evidence to confirm 'systemic racism' in society. Edited by Nicholas91 (08 Dec 2020 1.26pm) ‘All else being equal’ in candidates doesn’t exist. You take one on possibly knowing their one weakness compared to the other one with a different weakness. A judgement call has always been made. How did they differentiate between 2 people before. Toss a coin or each other? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.35pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Can't disagree with most of what you have said.

I think that (bold) is where the problem lies, my guess is that the immediate response would be but what if it was deemed that a white, heterosexual, able-bodied young man was perceived to be the better fit, all else being equal? And again, I would guess that the suggestion would be that were that made public knowledge the outcry would be plastered all over the media and used as evidence to confirm 'systemic racism' in society.

Edited by Nicholas91 (08 Dec 2020 1.26pm)

‘All else being equal’ in candidates doesn’t exist. You take one on possibly knowing their one weakness compared to the other one with a different weakness. A judgement call has always been made. How did they differentiate between 2 people before. Toss a coin or each other?

COYP

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Teddy Eagle 08 Dec 20 1.40pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle BLM did NOT start "taking the knee". Colin Kaepernick did. That's the historical start and the players are merely supporting the tide of opinion that swept around the world. It wasn't George Floyd's history that created this movement. It was the way he died. People were outraged and sufficiently motivated to do something about it. That people like you don't get that is regrettable but kind of predictable. He didn’t start it. In the NFL the coach tells the players to take a knee before addressing them.
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Teddy Eagle

08 Dec 20 1.40pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

BLM did NOT start "taking the knee".

Colin Kaepernick did. That's the historical start and the players are merely supporting the tide of opinion that swept around the world. It wasn't George Floyd's history that created this movement. It was the way he died. People were outraged and sufficiently motivated to do something about it. That people like you don't get that is regrettable but kind of predictable.

He didn’t start it. In the NFL the coach tells the players to take a knee before addressing them.

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 08 Dec 20 1.42pm
Originally posted by W12 Share prices are driven by diversity? Feel free to continue with your utterly insane and unfounded statements. Sorry. I felt I had to fix that one for you. Forgive me. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 08 Dec 20 1.42pm

Originally posted by W12

Share prices are driven by diversity?

Feel free to continue with your utterly insane and unfounded statements.

Sorry. I felt I had to fix that one for you.

Forgive me.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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cryrst The garden of England 08 Dec 20 1.44pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Untrue. That few, if any, have, indicates that within the dressing rooms there is a unanimity of purpose presumably because they have witnessed the effects at first hand and via first-hand testimony. They also know that they have a unique opportunity via a worldwide audience to make a strong statement. Nevertheless, if anyone wanted to stand aside, and offered rational reasoning on why that would be respected. It has elsewhere so why not here. Why would they have to give a reason. They dont want to is good enough. Does the fifth amendment not count when blacks might be offended?
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cryrst

The garden of England 08 Dec 20 1.44pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Untrue. That few, if any, have, indicates that within the dressing rooms there is a unanimity of purpose presumably because they have witnessed the effects at first hand and via first-hand testimony. They also know that they have a unique opportunity via a worldwide audience to make a strong statement.

Nevertheless, if anyone wanted to stand aside, and offered rational reasoning on why that would be respected. It has elsewhere so why not here.

Why would they have to give a reason.
They dont want to is good enough.
Does the fifth amendment not count when blacks might be offended?

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Eaglecoops CR3 08 Dec 20 1.47pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Well said! Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK. In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements. That is what I have described. If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking. Who’s picking a fight? No, I don’t agree, that is what the HR department says is the right thing to do because it ticks equality boxes despite the fact that they might not be the best for the job. All things being equal doesn’t happen in the real world, you have good candidates and not so good. What you are alluding to is that positive discrimination towards a slightly worse candidate is ok and I am saying it is not. The only true way to pick the right person is on merit. Now I will grant that in the past there has been favouritism for whatever reason but if a company ends up with totally black Directors because they are the best for the job then I am all for it. What I am not all for are organisations like Croydon Council employing their mates and then going bust because they are utterly incompetent. If you want to take your HR skills to somewhere to sort out I would suggest you start there. Edited by Eaglecoops (08 Dec 2020 1.51pm)
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Eaglecoops

CR3 08 Dec 20 1.47pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

Who’s picking a fight? No, I don’t agree, that is what the HR department says is the right thing to do because it ticks equality boxes despite the fact that they might not be the best for the job.

All things being equal doesn’t happen in the real world, you have good candidates and not so good. What you are alluding to is that positive discrimination towards a slightly worse candidate is ok and I am saying it is not.

The only true way to pick the right person is on merit. Now I will grant that in the past there has been favouritism for whatever reason but if a company ends up with totally black Directors because they are the best for the job then I am all for it. What I am not all for are organisations like Croydon Council employing their mates and then going bust because they are utterly incompetent.

If you want to take your HR skills to somewhere to sort out I would suggest you start there.

Edited by Eaglecoops (08 Dec 2020 1.51pm)

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