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London town block fire

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becky Flag over the moon 18 Jun 17 9.34am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I was not making a political point. On a human level it would have been better. The Queen judged her visit well.

I'm not either, but I somehow have this feeling that whatever was done would have been seen as 'wrong' - too early a visit and it's making political capital, leave it a bit for the essential services to get things under control and it's 'uncaring' and 'unfeeling'.

Her Maj, bless her, never gets it wrong!

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Jun 17 10.56am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by becky

I'm not either, but I somehow have this feeling that whatever was done would have been seen as 'wrong' - too early a visit and it's making political capital, leave it a bit for the essential services to get things under control and it's 'uncaring' and 'unfeeling'.

Her Maj, bless her, never gets it wrong!

She did with Diana. But since then, no she hasn't.

 


COYP

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jun 17 11.01am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

No it shows that people would rather shut down people who point out uncomfortable truths rather than address those truths.

The government were told about dangers in Tower blocks [Link] but chose to refuse it. Whether pointing this out makes me a lefty cund is irrelevant, it still shows the governments disregard for the people they are meant to represent.

You are being called out because you are totally transparent, as you are on virtually every topic. When you continuously use every thread to promote the Labour party and discredit the government then no one will take anything you say seriously. Your comments on this thread are an obvious attempt to make gain from a tragedy, no matter how you try and spin it, and you would like nothing more that to encourage anti government unrest before any inquest is even begun.

You deserve all the criticism you get.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Jun 17 11.10am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Romford-Eagle

I'm pretty sure once the inquest is finished, that the findings will be that the building meets current building standards.
No doubt recommendations will be made to avoid any future disasters like this one.
But what troubles me is the delay of the fire services to get everyone out, if everyone was told get out as soon as the fire was spotted I'm sure more lives would have been saved...

It's highly likely the fire spreading up the cladding and in through windows meant

- it spread quickly. Nobody knew how extremely hazardous it was.

- normal procedure is to stay inside because fires are contained and running down steps into the fire is worse than staying put and waiting or it to be put out.

- these 2 factors together meant fatalities. How do you tell 400 people to get out when the fire has already spread because the procedure is to stay inside?

I don't like the news mentioning the sister told to stay in by the fire brigade. She was told to because it was at the point they couldn't get to her or do anymore. The news channels don't say this. The fireman told the guy on the ground to tell his sister he loves her on the phone.

 


COYP

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Jun 17 11.33am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

No it shows that people would rather shut down people who point out uncomfortable truths rather than address those truths.

The government were told about dangers in Tower blocks [Link] but chose to refuse it. Whether pointing this out makes me a lefty cund is irrelevant, it still shows the governments disregard for the people they are meant to represent.

Nick Robinson has named Labour councils and constituencies, that as expected, have tower blocks with cladding.

Barwell should face serious questioning though.

 


COYP

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Jun 17 11.52am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Apparently when Grenfell residents checked into local hotels they got £10 from the council. TEN, yes ten pounds.

A thorough audit is soon likely in Kensington and Chelsea council.

 


COYP

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 18 Jun 17 12.09pm

Reposting from Architects for Social Housing
GRENFELL TOWER POLITICS
The Grenfell Tower fire happened in a Conservative-run borough, but the series of political decisions that led to the fire – the indifference of the Tenant Management Organisation to residents, the contracting out of the refurbishment to a private company, the cost cutting that led to flammable insulation material being used, the negligence that lead to the use of a cladding system that eye witnesses say acted as a chimney for the fire, the ignoring of the warnings by the London Fire Brigade, the reasons for the refurbishment itself, which the planning application reveals to be mostly cosmetic in order to attract investment into the area – are being replicated across London, and primarily in Labour boroughs, where more than 150 estates are under threat of demolition, privatisation and social cleansing by Labour-run councils.
Rydon, the company that was contracted by the Kensington and Chelsea TMO to refurbish Grenfell Tower, is the same company that carried out the refurbishment of 172 council homes on Myatts Field North estate in Brixton, and the same complaints by residents there have been made against Lambeth council, which is Labour-run. These include faulty electric sockets and dangerous wiring, something that the residents of Grenfell Tower complained about to the Kensington and Chelsea TMO, and which reports suggest could have been the cause of the fire. And like them the residents of Myatts Field North have been ignored by Lambeth council, who have handed over the running of the homes to a private consortium which has in turn subcontracted the maintenance of the block out to a private housing management company.
What happened on Tuesday is the very worst that can result from estate regeneration done to raise land values for the council and maximise profits for private companies, rather than for the benefit of residents; but its political causes are in place in every London borough. People have been won over by Jeremy Corbyn’s response to this disaster, which has been in stark contrast to Theresa May’s typically awkward indifference and insulting offer of a derisory £5 million in aid; but it would be wrong to think that conditions are any different on estates run by Labour councils in accordance with Labour housing policy. Corbyn has given his direct backing and support to Lambeth Labour council’s estate privatisation programme, and has remained resolutely silent on the Haringey Development Vehicle, where the Labour council is handing 3 council estates and £2 billion worth of land to property developers Lendlease.
We must not allow this disaster to be turned into a campaign for the Labour party, which is leading the way in the demolition, privatisation and social cleansing of London’s council estates. One of the ways we can honour the memory of the residents who died in Grenfell Tower is to identify and change the circumstances that led to their death. If we don’t, this will not be the last loss of life we see on London’s council estates.

 

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pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 18 Jun 17 12.19pm

Syrian victim Mohammed Alhajali family 'can come to UK'

[Link]

would some of my fellow posters see this as a reason for immigrants to set copy cat fires?

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 18 Jun 17 12.21pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A lot of hypocrisy again?

Not the angel you thought he and his party were after all then?

 


COYP

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Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jun 17 12.29pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I doubt that this is a left/right thing. Whatever it was then proper investigations should reveal it. I wouldn't be surprised if the reality is far less ideological than politics.

Nick's past cut and paste is far more balanced but I'd rather we moved away from Labour this, Tory that....At least until we know there's a point to it.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 18 Jun 17 12.31pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Apparently when Grenfell residents checked into local hotels they got £10 from the council. TEN, yes ten pounds.

A thorough audit is soon likely in Kensington and Chelsea council.

Hundreds of thousands has been raised by donations...I have donated, I'm sure many on here have...Why isn't this being used? I would have thought that this is its purpose.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 18 Jun 17 12.52pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I doubt that this is a left/right thing. Whatever it was then proper investigations should reveal it. I wouldn't be surprised if the reality is far less ideological than politics.

Nick's past cut and paste is far more balanced but I'd rather we moved away from Labour this, Tory that....At least until we know there's a point to it.


The smoking gun for me is successive housing ministers sitting on recommendations that may have prevented this tragedy.
Worth a read about building regs and how the system has changed over the years.

[Link]

Edited by nickgusset (18 Jun 2017 1.00pm)

 

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