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General Election 2017
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 Kermit8  Hevon 21 Apr 17 12.19pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Ha glad you're enjoying it! I admit I like the debate. It's also given me a chance to read some interesting articles from different perspectives. FYI I used to be a conservative party member back in 2005 when I turned 18 but since studying economics at university and entering the world of work and generally reading more about politics and economics I have gradually changed my opinion to be much more closely aligned with socialist principles and new Keynesian economic thinking. I find it to be much more holistic, realistic and takes into account market inefficiencies and the irrationality of people as economic agents. I would implore everyone reading this thread to read Stiglitz's articles on inequality. I have dug out this opinion piece by Krugman which was written prior to the last election about austerity [Link] It's excellent. S'alright, you are preaching to the converted here. I was there in the 80's under Thatcher. Pretty much everything that has gone wrong or gotten worse in regard to the big issues like housing, education, the railways, the increase of the underclass, etc, have their nascence under her tenure and policies. And for Brexiteers I will again remind them that it was her and other Tories in Government that actually signed up to everything you hate about the EU today. Not the Left, not Labour, not the Liberals but the good ole Conservative Party.
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CambridgeEagle  Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.20pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
I agree on the training and education but those won't have a multiplier effect for years, and when you've been mismanaged into a situation whereby you struggle to afford years, we go round in circles. Red, blue, red, blue, something else Clegg was right about on ITVs 2010 debate. Healthcare won't accelerate growth very much. On what do you base that assertion?
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.20pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Ha glad you're enjoying it! I admit I like the debate. It's also given me a chance to read some interesting articles from different perspectives. FYI I used to be a conservative party member back in 2005 when I turned 18 but since studying economics at university and entering the world of work and generally reading more about politics and economics I have gradually changed my opinion to be much more closely aligned with socialist principles and new Keynesian economic thinking. I find it to be much more holistic, realistic and takes into account market inefficiencies and the irrationality of people as economic agents. I would implore everyone reading this thread to read Stiglitz's articles on inequality. I have dug out this opinion piece by Krugman which was written prior to the last election about austerity [Link] It's excellent. This is all very well, but every attempt at a truly socialist economy has failed miserably and the poor people that it is supposed to help have become poorer.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 21 Apr 17 12.23pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
This is all very well, but every attempt at a truly socialist economy has failed miserably and the poor people that it is supposed to help have become poorer. That's not what he said, is it? "Aligned with socialist principles" he said. A la Norway and other forward-looking countries.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.25pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
That's not what he said, is it? "Aligned with socialist principles" he said. A la Norway and other forward-looking countries. OK, but you agree then that every attempt at a truly socialist economy has failed miserably and the poor people that it is supposed to help have become poorer?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.25pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So they do it because they hate poor people and you know more about the economy than the Chancellor and his aides? Are you sure you want to go with that?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 21 Apr 17 12.26pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
On what do you base that assertion? It makes a healthier workforce sure but it doesn't produce or sell anything, or export anything.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 21 Apr 17 12.28pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
OK, but you agree then that every attempt at a truly socialist economy has failed miserably and the poor people that it is supposed to help have become poorer?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.30pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
OK, but you agree then that every attempt at a truly socialist economy has failed miserably and the poor people that it is supposed to help have become poorer? What do you mean by "truly socialist"? I'd describe France as a socialist economy and despite what you might read in the press you're more likely to be in work in France than you are in the US. Standards of living in France are generally good and quality of life is good. They have higher levels of productivity than we have and it's a much more egalitarian society. France does have it's problems but you'd be wrong to say it has failed miserably, and the poor have become poorer. The poor in France are much less poor than the poor in the UK.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 21 Apr 17 12.31pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
It makes a healthier workforce sure but it doesn't produce or sell anything, or export anything. A healthier workforce is much more productive though... Mental health as important as physical health in that.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 21 Apr 17 12.32pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
What do you mean by "truly socialist"? I'd describe France as a socialist economy and despite what you might read in the press you're more likely to be in work in France than you are in the US. Standards of living in France are generally good and quality of life is good. They have higher levels of productivity than we have and it's a much more egalitarian society. France does have it's problems but you'd be wrong to say it has failed miserably, and the poor have become poorer. The poor in France are much less poor than the poor in the UK. Because of their helping hand everywhere all through life France's debt is rising and rising, when I last looked a couple of years ago.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 21 Apr 17 12.35pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
No, i don't. Check out Kerala. 50 years of very left-wing success. Highest literacy rates in India, well-being good, etc. All relative, of course, but if you had been born not well off in India in the 1950's you would probably have wanted to be born there. Kerala? Is that a country? Any success examples that we might have heard of?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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