Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

OknotOK Cockfosters, London 07 Mar 03 11.57am
Quote Penge Eagle at 06 Mar 2003 3:15pm But I'd like to see some balance. Let's have some articles about double standards in other countries not the three I mentioned above so people can't accuse posters of being anti-British! Well all of this is from the CHalmers Johnson "Blowback" book that I am reading at the moment: "According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the five leading arms suppliers for the period 1993 through 1997 were the United States, Russia, Great Britain, France, and Germany, though total American sales were some $14 billion greater than the other four combined." "By 1995, according to its own Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, the United States was the source of 49 percent of global arms exports. It shipped arms of various types to 140 countries, 90 percent of which were either not democracies or were human rights abusers." "[Costa Rica's] former president, Oscar Arias, who won the 1987 Nobel Peace price for negotiating an end to multiple civil wars in Central America, is a strong opponent of the renewed American arms shipments [re-started under the Clinton administration]. in 1999, he observed 'Americans have shown great concern about the reported loss of classified nucleur secrets to the Chinese. But they should be just as outraged that their country gives away many other military secrets voluntarily, in the form of high-tech arms exports. By selling the advanced weaponary throughout the world, wealthy military contractors not only weaken national security and squeeze tax payers at home but also strengthen dictators and worsen human misery abroad.'" So there you go -- not just picking on the UK now! "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
Alert a moderator to this post

OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 07 Mar 03 11.57am

Quote Penge Eagle at 06 Mar 2003 3:15pm

But I'd like to see some balance. Let's have some articles about double standards in other countries not the three I mentioned above so people can't accuse posters of being anti-British!

Well all of this is from the CHalmers Johnson "Blowback" book that I am reading at the moment:

"According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, the five leading arms suppliers for the period 1993 through 1997 were the United States, Russia, Great Britain, France, and Germany, though total American sales were some $14 billion greater than the other four combined."

"By 1995, according to its own Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, the United States was the source of 49 percent of global arms exports. It shipped arms of various types to 140 countries, 90 percent of which were either not democracies or were human rights abusers."

"[Costa Rica's] former president, Oscar Arias, who won the 1987 Nobel Peace price for negotiating an end to multiple civil wars in Central America, is a strong opponent of the renewed American arms shipments [re-started under the Clinton administration]. in 1999, he observed 'Americans have shown great concern about the reported loss of classified nucleur secrets to the Chinese. But they should be just as outraged that their country gives away many other military secrets voluntarily, in the form of high-tech arms exports. By selling the advanced weaponary throughout the world, wealthy military contractors not only weaken national security and squeeze tax payers at home but also strengthen dictators and worsen human misery abroad.'"

So there you go -- not just picking on the UK now!

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

Alert a moderator to this post

eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 07 Mar 03 12.03pm
Careful, you'll be called pro-Saddam instead... I think the thing that stands out about the story that I started this thread with is not so much the fact that we sold these weapons to such a dodgy unstable maniac (as Jimble so eloquently put it, that's no surprise) but that (equally predictably) our government deliberately misled both us and our allies about it. Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them? If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow? I'm sorry, but I think these are issues worth investigating, along with the question of whether Quorn is food or sh*te. face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
Alert a moderator to this post

eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 07 Mar 03 12.03pm

Careful, you'll be called pro-Saddam instead...

I think the thing that stands out about the story that I started this thread with is not so much the fact that we sold these weapons to such a dodgy unstable maniac (as Jimble so eloquently put it, that's no surprise) but that (equally predictably) our government deliberately misled both us and our allies about it.

Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them?

If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow?

I'm sorry, but I think these are issues worth investigating, along with the question of whether Quorn is food or sh*te.

face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno

Alert a moderator to this post

OknotOK Cockfosters, London 07 Mar 03 12.11pm
Quote halfmanhalfslug at 07 Mar 2003 12:03pm Careful, you'll be called pro-Saddam instead... I think the thing that stands out about the story that I started this thread with is not so much the fact that we sold these weapons to such a dodgy unstable maniac (as Jimble so eloquently put it, that's no surprise) but that (equally predictably) our government deliberately misled both us and our allies about it. Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them? If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow? I'm sorry, but I think these are issues worth investigating, along with the question of whether Quorn is food or sh*te. Definitely $hite And I agree. We do need to keep questioning. That's the only way our democracy will continue to function. "It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show
Alert a moderator to this post

OknotOK

Cockfosters, London 07 Mar 03 12.11pm

Quote halfmanhalfslug at 07 Mar 2003 12:03pm

Careful, you'll be called pro-Saddam instead...

Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them?

If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow?

I'm sorry, but I think these are issues worth investigating, along with the question of whether Quorn is food or sh*te.

Definitely $hite

And I agree. We do need to keep questioning. That's the only way our democracy will continue to function.

"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show

Alert a moderator to this post

Penge Eagle Beckenham 07 Mar 03 2.45pm
Quote OknotOK at 07 Mar 2003 12:11pm Quote halfmanhalfslug at 07 Mar 2003 12:03pm Careful, you'll be called pro-Saddam instead... I think the thing that stands out about the story that I started this thread with is not so much the fact that we sold these weapons to such a dodgy unstable maniac (as Jimble so eloquently put it, that's no surprise) but that (equally predictably) our government deliberately misled both us and our allies about it. Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them? If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow? I'm sorry, but I think these are issues worth investigating, along with the question of whether Quorn is food or sh*te. Definitely $hite And I agree. We do need to keep questioning. That's the only way our democracy will continue to function. I agree on both counts too How boring!
Alert a moderator to this post \| Board Moderator

Penge Eagle

Beckenham 07 Mar 03 2.45pm

Quote OknotOK at 07 Mar 2003 12:11pm

Quote halfmanhalfslug at 07 Mar 2003 12:03pm

Careful, you'll be called pro-Saddam instead...

Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them?

If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow?

I'm sorry, but I think these are issues worth investigating, along with the question of whether Quorn is food or sh*te.

Definitely $hite

And I agree. We do need to keep questioning. That's the only way our democracy will continue to function.

I agree on both counts too How boring!

Alert a moderator to this post | Board Moderator

JollyStef 08 Mar 03 8.45am
Quote halfmanhalfslug at 07 Mar 2003 12:03pm Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them? If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow? I hear rumours left, right and centre Saddam already died a couple of years ago and has been replaced by a couple of doubles. How many Saddams do we have to kill now in order to be free of him Jewish question : I would, that's the only thing which everyone with a brain can agree on ... Israel is a pest in the Middle-East. Arrogant gits. finished
Alert a moderator to this post

JollyStef 08 Mar 03 8.45am

Quote halfmanhalfslug at 07 Mar 2003 12:03pm
Now, if they lied to us then, why shouldn't they be lying to us now? They say Saddam is a threat, why should we believe them?

If they said Jews were conspiring to take over the world, and needed to be exterminated in a Final Solution to the Jewish Question... would we follow?

I hear rumours left, right and centre Saddam already died a couple of years ago and has been replaced by a couple of doubles. How many Saddams do we have to kill now in order to be free of him

Jewish question : I would, that's the only thing which everyone with a brain can agree on ... Israel is a pest in the Middle-East. Arrogant gits.

finished

Alert a moderator to this post

Petealiator 1066 Country! 08 Mar 03 9.15pm
Just caught up with the rest of this thread. I think there's been some really good posts – apart from the s* about Quorn…That s’ll kill ya!!! I’ve had it twice in my life and both times within twenty minutes of consuming it, the s was being projectile-vomited straight back out again! - but let me just say in response to some of the posts, of course I see and acknowledge the wrong-doings perpetrated by politicians in the name of Britain and England, I know my country is far from perfect and as a patriot that hurts me more than most, it's a sucker-punch in the gut every time, it makes me angry as Hell when my beloved Britain gets involved in under the counter dodgy dealing and dubious political manoeuvres in the world, Christ, that's why I've only ever voted ONCE in my whole bloody life - I once voted Labour in the vain hope of removing the monster Thatcher, I hate all politicians! But, I forgive Britain for her wrongs because Britain is my homeland and I feel as a nation she generally strives to stand for goodness and right and her people are generally decent good-willed folk. I just can't understand what there is to be gained by constantly attacking your own country. Question everything by all means, but if you constantly feel the need to bite the hand that feeds, you might just end up going hungry! Anyway, here's a little tale for ya... are you sitting comfortable? I used to know this kid once, he was a bit of a rogue, a right scallywag to be honest, had a small gang with a real bad reputation, people warned me to steer clear, but I was in a larger gang that you just didn't mess with and this kid had never shown me any malice so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now being the kid on the estate "who could get things... cheap", I was the person to come to if you needed to "acquire" anything, s* like rare comics, knock-off chocolate bars, flick-knives, that sort of crap mostly. Now this scally and his little gang became really good customers of mine, they always paid the going rate and never paid late. Anyway, one day he asked if I could get him some baseball bats as his little band had become the target of a real nasty gang of older kids from another estate. So supply them I did and the turf war got sorted with it must be said, no little bloodshed, but a shaky truce was eventually called and order was restored. After a while, the scally and his gang began to get a little too big for their boots, they started taking liberties with other bigger gangs, they even started to bad-mouth me and my gang and eventually the cheeky b****s used those baseball bats to devastating effect on a couple of mates of mine. So, I rounded up my gang and we marched off for the scally and his gang's hideout to teach him a lesson he'd never forget. But, as we rounded the corner into the road that would lead us to our prey, I realised that we couldn't attack the little s* after all, because it was all my fault! I'd sold him those bats! So we all went home and lived happily ever after in Fluffyland! Well not quite; the little s* and his gang ended up killing loads of innocent kids and chaos rained supreme, but it wasn’t the little s* and his gang’s fault, their outrageous behaviour doesn’t even come into it, the fault is all mine, mine and my gangs, ah the guilt! If only I’d never sold him those bats… If only I’d taken the bloody things off him when he first turned nasty! If only! My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
Alert a moderator to this post

Petealiator

1066 Country! 08 Mar 03 9.15pm

Just caught up with the rest of this thread. I think there's been some really good posts – apart from the s*** about Quorn…That s***’ll kill ya!!! I’ve had it twice in my life and both times within twenty minutes of consuming it, the s*** was being projectile-vomited straight back out again! - but let me just say in response to some of the posts, of course I see and acknowledge the wrong-doings perpetrated by politicians in the name of Britain and England, I know my country is far from perfect and as a patriot that hurts me more than most, it's a sucker-punch in the gut every time, it makes me angry as Hell when my beloved Britain gets involved in under the counter dodgy dealing and dubious political manoeuvres in the world, Christ, that's why I've only ever voted ONCE in my whole bloody life - I once voted Labour in the vain hope of removing the monster Thatcher, I hate all politicians! But, I forgive Britain for her wrongs because Britain is my homeland and I feel as a nation she generally strives to stand for goodness and right and her people are generally decent good-willed folk. I just can't understand what there is to be gained by constantly attacking your own country. Question everything by all means, but if you constantly feel the need to bite the hand that feeds, you might just end up going hungry!

Anyway, here's a little tale for ya... are you sitting comfortable?

I used to know this kid once, he was a bit of a rogue, a right scallywag to be honest, had a small gang with a real bad reputation, people warned me to steer clear, but I was in a larger gang that you just didn't mess with and this kid had never shown me any malice so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Now being the kid on the estate "who could get things... cheap", I was the person to come to if you needed to "acquire" anything, s*** like rare comics, knock-off chocolate bars, flick-knives, that sort of crap mostly. Now this scally and his little gang became really good customers of mine, they always paid the going rate and never paid late. Anyway, one day he asked if I could get him some baseball bats as his little band had become the target of a real nasty gang of older kids from another estate. So supply them I did and the turf war got sorted with it must be said, no little bloodshed, but a shaky truce was eventually called and order was restored.

After a while, the scally and his gang began to get a little too big for their boots, they started taking liberties with other bigger gangs, they even started to bad-mouth me and my gang and eventually the cheeky b******s used those baseball bats to devastating effect on a couple of mates of mine. So, I rounded up my gang and we marched off for the scally and his gang's hideout to teach him a lesson he'd never forget. But, as we rounded the corner into the road that would lead us to our prey, I realised that we couldn't attack the little s*** after all, because it was all my fault! I'd sold him those bats!

So we all went home and lived happily ever after in Fluffyland! Well not quite; the little s*** and his gang ended up killing loads of innocent kids and chaos rained supreme, but it wasn’t the little s*** and his gang’s fault, their outrageous behaviour doesn’t even come into it, the fault is all mine, mine and my gangs, ah the guilt! If only I’d never sold him those bats… If only I’d taken the bloody things off him when he first turned nasty! If only!

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

Alert a moderator to this post

eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 10 Mar 03 9.57am
Well, I hope you learned your lesson, young man. face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
Alert a moderator to this post

eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 10 Mar 03 9.57am

Well, I hope you learned your lesson, young man.

Alert a moderator to this post

JollyStef 10 Mar 03 10.37am
Pete, seeing and recognising some of your countries wrong doings has nothing to do with being or not being a patriot. Although we speak of "a country" it's always INDIVIDUALS who do things and decide. You are not disrespecting your country if you see it's faults .. you are acknowledging the fact that at certain times in history certain people of your country (but not your country as a whole) did things wrong. Don't take patriotism so far that you become like an American who can't think for himself. Dangerous !! I know you're not but you take Englands' wrong-doings too personal. It wasn't you. The story ? Good but this "gang war" is a bit bigger hence the decisions to keep supplying the wrong countries with weapons (and doing it over and over again without learning from your first mistake) has more implications and involves a lot more innocent people. Gangs can kill eachother off .. no worries and no loss !! But this involves innocent people who didn't ask for it. AND it breads new anti-west people .. hence more little gangs !! Very scary !! And slug ... why are you always so surprised when I agree with you. HOW MANY TIMES do I have to make it clear I'm not just someone who just hates without thinking for myself. If you do something wrong, no matter what side you're on, you ARE wrong. You obviously smoke way too much ... go out and breath some fresh air, it'll do you good !! finished
Alert a moderator to this post

JollyStef 10 Mar 03 10.37am

Pete, seeing and recognising some of your countries wrong doings has nothing to do with being or not being a patriot.

Although we speak of "a country" it's always INDIVIDUALS who do things and decide. You are not disrespecting your country if you see it's faults .. you are acknowledging the fact that at certain times in history certain people of your country (but not your country as a whole) did things wrong.

Don't take patriotism so far that you become like an American who can't think for himself. Dangerous !! I know you're not but you take Englands' wrong-doings too personal. It wasn't you.

The story ? Good but this "gang war" is a bit bigger hence the decisions to keep supplying the wrong countries with weapons (and doing it over and over again without learning from your first mistake) has more implications and involves a lot more innocent people. Gangs can kill eachother off .. no worries and no loss !! But this involves innocent people who didn't ask for it. AND it breads new anti-west people .. hence more little gangs !! Very scary !!

And slug ... why are you always so surprised when I agree with you. HOW MANY TIMES do I have to make it clear I'm not just someone who just hates without thinking for myself. If you do something wrong, no matter what side you're on, you ARE wrong.
You obviously smoke way too much ... go out and breath some fresh air, it'll do you good !!

finished

Alert a moderator to this post

Bexter By the Sea 10 Mar 03 10.54am
I couldn't agree with you more Stef (maybe i need some fresh air too ) I love my country, for all its faults, much like everything else in my life!
Alert a moderator to this post

Bexter

By the Sea 10 Mar 03 10.54am

I couldn't agree with you more Stef (maybe i need some fresh air too )

I love my country, for all its faults, much like everything else in my life!

Alert a moderator to this post

saxoneagle Bromley 10 Mar 03 11.09am
Think that says all that needs to be said....
Alert a moderator to this post

saxoneagle

Bromley 10 Mar 03 11.09am

Think that says all that needs to be said....

Alert a moderator to this post

Meerkat 2 1957 10 Mar 03 11.13am
Quote Petealiator at 08 Mar 2003 9:15pm Now being the kid on the estate "who could get things... cheap", I was the person to come to if you needed to "acquire" anything, s* like rare comics, knock-off chocolate bars**, flick-knives, that sort of crap mostly. Pete, what's your best price on 'Curly Wurlies'?
Alert a moderator to this post

Meerkat 2

1957 10 Mar 03 11.13am

Quote Petealiator at 08 Mar 2003 9:15pm

Now being the kid on the estate "who could get things... cheap", I was the person to come to if you needed to "acquire" anything, s*** like rare comics, knock-off chocolate bars, flick-knives, that sort of crap mostly.

Pete, what's your best price on 'Curly Wurlies'?

Alert a moderator to this post

eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 10 Mar 03 11.26am
Quote JollyStef at 10 Mar 2003 10:37am Pete, seeing and recognising some of your countries wrong doings has nothing to do with being or not being a patriot. Although we speak of "a country" it's always INDIVIDUALS who do things and decide. You are not disrespecting your country if you see it's faults .. you are acknowledging the fact that at certain times in history certain people of your country (but not your country as a whole) did things wrong. Don't take patriotism so far that you become like an American who can't think for himself. Dangerous !! I know you're not but you take Englands' wrong-doings too personal. It wasn't you. The story ? Good but this "gang war" is a bit bigger hence the decisions to keep supplying the wrong countries with weapons (and doing it over and over again without learning from your first mistake) has more implications and involves a lot more innocent people. Gangs can kill eachother off .. no worries and no loss !! But this involves innocent people who didn't ask for it. AND it breads new anti-west people .. hence more little gangs !! Very scary !! And slug ... why are you always so surprised when I agree with you. HOW MANY TIMES do I have to make it clear I'm not just someone who just hates without thinking for myself. If you do something wrong, no matter what side you're on, you ARE wrong. You obviously smoke way too much ... go out and breath some fresh air, it'll do you good !! Very true Stef... seeing your country through open eyes, recognising its faults and loving it nevertheless... that's a far more honourable form of patriotism than the type currently seen in the USA, where no dissent or criticism is allowed. That's extremely unhealthy, and it's clear where that attitude has led them, to everyone's cost. And I'm having a day off the weed today. I'm a bit scared actually. face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno
Alert a moderator to this post

eulalio

Girls just wanna have Funt 10 Mar 03 11.26am

Quote JollyStef at 10 Mar 2003 10:37am

Pete, seeing and recognising some of your countries wrong doings has nothing to do with being or not being a patriot.

Don't take patriotism so far that you become like an American who can't think for himself. Dangerous !! I know you're not but you take Englands' wrong-doings too personal. It wasn't you.

Very true Stef... seeing your country through open eyes, recognising its faults and loving it nevertheless... that's a far more honourable form of patriotism than the type currently seen in the USA, where no dissent or criticism is allowed. That's extremely unhealthy, and it's clear where that attitude has led them, to everyone's cost.

And I'm having a day off the weed today. I'm a bit scared actually.

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors