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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 08 Mar 24 12.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
Problem is people equate Muslims as individuals with Islam as a whole. So for example this Shamima Begum story. You would be surprised how many far/dissident right people think she should be allowed back in the country. My own reasoning is that since she was under the age of 18 when she left the country then she should be seen as a victim. A day over, and let her rot in hell but we have a law of majority, and as such it should be respected. Many of the girls who were victims of the grooming gangs were under the age of 18 and afforded their, quite rightly, victim status based on that fact. What I cannot abide is the hypocrisy (although to be fair we are all guilty of it in one way or the other). So the Left literally ignored the plight of those kids in terms of the grooming gang because they did not want to offend their sensibilities/promotion hopes (never ignore that venality) around the risk of being labeled racist. Even aided and abetted those scumbags to do what they did. And many on the Right call for Begums head for the crime of being a kid who got conned. For me, two sides of the same coin. Now I will openly admit that I do not believe Islam is compatible with the West. We are literally civilisational enemies with Islam seeking to conquer us, by force, on several occassions. And that is a battle we are in at the moment. But in terms of individual Muslims? No. Completely different. I have zero problems in being amicable and civil with Muslims of my acquaintance. Even have a few as good friends. The vast majority of Muslims in the UK are here because our Establishment, without asking us, allowed them in. It is that Establishment that is my primary foe. Because until we defeat that, then nothing else can happen. A couple of points. Firstly the girl wasn’t bundled into a van against her will and driven across Europe to her destination. She volunteered to go, I believe even stealing somebody’s paperwork to facilitate the journey. She was complicit in the process. Secondly, whilst generalising, certain religious movements see under-age females as favourable, and so they can take these girls knowing that the host country’s morals and laws will offer sympathy for their return. A reason why cultures don’t always mix well, as one will use the freedoms of democracy to ultimately destroy those freedoms. Thirdly, if underage perpetrators of crime can’t normally be named and are offered protection where others can’t be afforded the same protection, how is the current knife crime problem ever going to be solved. (Ironic seeing as a firearms officer has today been named following the shooting in Streatham). Fourthly, you will always have problems when a sector of the community puts their religion above the wants of the law; the multicultural society is no longer a stable one at that juncture.
hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 24 12.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
It is an addiction. Virtue Signaling. That tiny hit of dopamine every time that make a public statement about some issue. And like all addictions, it requires a bigger and bigger hit to get the same buzz as time moves forward. Part of me actually pities then. Just junkies, when all is said and done. Best exposed perhaps by the current trans activism. Trans people were happily minding their own business with little fuss until their self appointed spokesmen kicked off. Now they are subjected to the inevitable reaction. Same with football racism. It got worse as soon as it became a Sky Sports campaign. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Mar 2024 12.33pm)
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PalazioVecchio south pole 08 Mar 24 12.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines
if you have millions of people living in your State who hate and disrespect that same State.....then its really your own fault. For tolerating and abetting such disrespect. the London 7/7 bombers being a case in point.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Matov 08 Mar 24 12.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines
A couple of points. Firstly the girl wasn’t bundled into a van against her will and driven across Europe to her destination. She volunteered to go, I believe even stealing somebody’s paperwork to facilitate the journey. She was complicit in the process. . And a lot of those victims of the grooming scandals initially went into the kebab/mini-cab offices. Or had an Asian boyfriend to start with who deliberately acted all nice. Issue is they were children. As was Begum. We can argue all we want about the semantics but we have settled on 18 as the age of majority and we either stick with that or we don't. If you can show that Begum individually murdered somebody then yes, a crime has been committed and at her age then, deserving of a legal process. But as I understand matters then no. Look, I don't want her back in the country. I want to wash my hands of her. But none of which alters the law as it stands. She was born here. Whether we like it or not, she is as legally British as I either of us are (assuming you are British which I have no reason to doubt). Our personal feelings should not come into it.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 08 Mar 24 12.37pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The issue is a lack of foresight and pragmatism. The modern left seem driven by idealism and emotion. Some of these activist types even campaign for conflicting causes. Totally irrational. I think those are more reasonable criticisms of the left in general, certainly that people can be more idealistic than pragmatic, but that's a long way from suggesting someone is mentally unstable. I think generally the way most on here describe 'the left' is not at all reflective of your average left-wing person, and they really describe a fairly 'extreme' version of left-wing politics and attempt to extrapolate that to represent 'the left' as a whole - this stuff about people 'absorbing propaganda to the fibre of their existence' and being addicted to virtue signalling - it's a tiny minority of loud activists who that applies to, but your average left-leaning 30-something Londoner... it's just as much nonsense to them as it is to you. Because a newspaper finds some nonsense gender story from the University of Sussex or similar and tells us 'THIS IS WHAT LABOUR WANTS, THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT WANT' it does not make it true. An ability to be hypocritical and support conflicting ideas is not remotely unique to either side.
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 08 Mar 24 12.48pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Best exposed perhaps by the current trans activism. Trans people were happily minding their own business with little fuss until their self appointed spokesmen kicked off. Now they are subjected to the inevitable reaction. Same with football racism. It got worse as soon as it became a Sky Sports campaign. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Mar 2024 12.33pm) Trans people weren't happily minding their own business at all - there was no fuss because their voices weren't heard. Now they are, and we present it as a new issue because it's new to most people. On what basis has football racism gotten worse since Sky Sports began campaigning? How are you concluding that?
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Teddy Eagle 08 Mar 24 12.59pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
I think those are more reasonable criticisms of the left in general, certainly that people can be more idealistic than pragmatic, but that's a long way from suggesting someone is mentally unstable. I think generally the way most on here describe 'the left' is not at all reflective of your average left-wing person, and they really describe a fairly 'extreme' version of left-wing politics and attempt to extrapolate that to represent 'the left' as a whole - this stuff about people 'absorbing propaganda to the fibre of their existence' and being addicted to virtue signalling - it's a tiny minority of loud activists who that applies to, but your average left-leaning 30-something Londoner... it's just as much nonsense to them as it is to you. Because a newspaper finds some nonsense gender story from the University of Sussex or similar and tells us 'THIS IS WHAT LABOUR WANTS, THIS IS WHAT THE LEFT WANT' it does not make it true. An ability to be hypocritical and support conflicting ideas is not remotely unique to either side. Probably true of most people. A few years ago LBC used to have a spokesman on from, I think, the Muslim Council who would be wheeled out to counter the more extreme views expressed in some quarters. He ended up saying - if you wanted a view on the Christian church you wouldn't ask the head of the Ku Klux Klan so no, we don't all agree with what they say.
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 08 Mar 24 1.06pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Probably true of most people. A few years ago LBC used to have a spokesman on from, I think, the Muslim Council who would be wheeled out to counter the more extreme views expressed in some quarters. He ended up saying - if you wanted a view on the Christian church you wouldn't ask the head of the Ku Klux Klan so no, we don't all agree with what they say. He put it far better than I did!
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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Mar 24 1.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Probably true of most people. A few years ago LBC used to have a spokesman on from, I think, the Muslim Council who would be wheeled out to counter the more extreme views expressed in some quarters. He ended up saying - if you wanted a view on the Christian church you wouldn't ask the head of the Ku Klux Klan so no, we don't all agree with what they say. I guess we could ask a moderate like Salman Rushdie.
Red and Blue Army! |
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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 24 1.17pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Trans people weren't happily minding their own business at all - there was no fuss because their voices weren't heard. Now they are, and we present it as a new issue because it's new to most people. On what basis has football racism gotten worse since Sky Sports began campaigning? How are you concluding that? I disagree on both. Ask the majority of transgender people if they think that activism on their behalf is a positive development. Football racism was hardly seen other than abroad before Sky started their virtue signalling nonsense.
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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 08 Mar 24 1.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I disagree on both. Ask the majority of transgender people if they think that activism on their behalf is a positive development. Football racism was hardly seen other than abroad before Sky started their virtue signalling nonsense. The football example is exactly the same - you hardly ever saw it, because it didn't get coverage and players didn't bother reporting it - but that doesn't mean it didn't exist or wasn't a problem.
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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 24 1.48pm | |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
The football example is exactly the same - you hardly ever saw it, because it didn't get coverage and players didn't bother reporting it - but that doesn't mean it didn't exist or wasn't a problem. There will always be isolated examples of just about any behaviour. The important factor is whether the highlighting of such low levels of behaviours are of benefit. It is also quite ridiculous to imagine that anyone in a minority won't receive some level of prejudice. This is another example of unrealistic idealism. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (08 Mar 2024 1.51pm)
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