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People's obsession with the academy
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 HKOwen  Hong Kong 05 Nov 23 12.04am |
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Our academy at the moment is not a production line of PL quality players. It is often referred to in glowing terms by The Athletic, I wonder where they are getting these stories from? The academy is not a substitute for adequate investment in the squad, quality of investment is a whole other discussion.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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Noz  North Hampshire 05 Nov 23 8.21am |
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Originally posted by southnorwoodhill
It's all relative isn't it? One Christian Benteke, his initial fee and wages over six seasons would probably have paid for the academy handsomely. Or one Aaron Wan-Bissaka. Which, I am led to believe is what we spent his transfer fee to Man U on.
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| rikz Croydon 05 Nov 23 9.07am |
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Originally posted by regtheeagle
What a clueless man. We have the best academy in this country possibly one of the best in the world. We have produced some of the best to walk the pitch. Can’t stand the negativity from this fella. Support the club and support the youth. Kind regards Reg Best academy in the country and one of the best in the world haha lay off the pipe.
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| aashman12 05 Nov 23 10.07am |
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Originally posted by rikz
Keep reading posts saying how we should be bringing through youth, we've invested in the academy, we're cat A ect. Defending the clubs transfer strategy, instead of wasting money use the academy and produce players. 5% of players playing in the Premier league come through Premier league academies, that's about 25 players. On average, players in the prem are probably between 18-34 so that's every Premier league club producing 1.3 players a season between them. You're living in dream world if you think we're going to be consistently producing players to a Premier league standard. Its the best league in the world, full of the best players in the world, so already you have a population of 70 million competing against 8 billion. Mathematically its impossible. You could chuck 100 million a year at the academy, it won't make a difference. 1 player that came through before it was even Cat A paid for the entire rebuild, then one of our best ever players came from the same academy, then there's moses before him, routledge before him and so on, it's been relied on before investment so why not now?
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Nov 23 10.57am |
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If we could produce the odd player even to sell for a couple of mil to the lower leagues, or abroad, with sell on fees we'd be doing well.
Red and Blue Army! |
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| TheBigToePunt 06 Nov 23 11.43am |
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This thread originally focused on how many players we have produced over the years. That seems a fair question, but I have some time for the response that we can't compare the past with the present, as we only recently got a top-class academy. Perhaps instead of asking how many players we have produced in the past, we should ask whether there are any examples of clubs our size regularly producing players and/or a profit. This is interesting: The article is focused on profit form transfers in youth-graduates, rather than number of graduates into the first team but, as you might guess, the most 'profitable' youth set ups seem to belong either to clubs from less-wealthy leagues that are geared up to sell players to bigger leagues, or the academies of mega-clubs. Chelsea and Liverpool in particular have been very good at obtaining a premium for their unwanted graduates, whilst Liverpool are masters at kidding the world that a player with their 'branding' must be better than he actually is (Jordan Ibe, Dominic Solanke etc). What I can't see anywhere is an example of anyone our size building a successful top-ten club on the back of promoting and/or selling academy graduates. Southampton had a prolonged period of talent-production, but it didn't help their team to higher league placings, or stop the club falling into the Championship. As others have said, we did once produce the team of the 80's, and are in a unique catchment area, so perhaps we could produce two players a year on average good enough to keep us in the top ten and/or sell at a profit. I think we would be the exception to the rule if we can manage to do it though.
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| crystal-purley Purley 06 Nov 23 12.57pm |
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For many years we have had second or third dibs on the local guys but now that we have the academy and we will have first choice on the locals the new kids coming in will in theory be better than the youngsters who are coming through now. I believe (and it will take a little while) the recent trickle will become a steady stream, just be patient.
Enjoying getting up later and not having someone who knows better than me (apart from the missus of course). |
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| MrRobbo Chaldon 06 Nov 23 1.06pm |
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With Connor, Guehi, Jonstone, Mitchel, Eze, we have arguably the strongest and most viable pathway in the UK. So compared to any time before we should offer a serious alternative to the big teams. IF not in the early years, then at least around first pro contract time.
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| Painter Croydon 06 Nov 23 1.13pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Our academy at the moment is not a production line of PL quality players. It is often referred to in glowing terms by The Athletic, I wonder where they are getting these stories from? The academy is not a substitute for adequate investment in the squad, quality of investment is a whole other discussion. It’s been operational about 18 months at best, it’s a long term project. You seem to miss the point that paying big transfer fees for the likes of Benteke and Sakho, it’s sustainable for a club of our finances. Producing some of you own youth players is more viable route.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 06 Nov 23 1.14pm |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
I can't even think of any that are regulars in the lower leagues other than the two. Sullay KaiKai has nearly 200 football league appearances and is an international for Sierra Leone. Hiram Boateng also pushing 200 professional games across League One and League Two Jason Lokilo is with Hull in the Championship. Rob Street is in league one. Ryan Innis has 100+ football league appearances and now with Forest Green in League Two. There's also Keshi Andersen and Freddie Ladapo who are both Championship forwards - we signed both for our academy, as opposed to developed them from kids. Again to hammer the point, we've had below average academy facilities for nearly all of the last 10 years, so I think it's a poor measuring stick as to what we'll be capable of moving forward.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 06 Nov 23 1.17pm |
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Originally posted by TheBigToePunt
This thread originally focused on how many players we have produced over the years. That seems a fair question, but I have some time for the response that we can't compare the past with the present, as we only recently got a top-class academy. Perhaps instead of asking how many players we have produced in the past, we should ask whether there are any examples of clubs our size regularly producing players and/or a profit. This is interesting: The article is focused on profit form transfers in youth-graduates, rather than number of graduates into the first team but, as you might guess, the most 'profitable' youth set ups seem to belong either to clubs from less-wealthy leagues that are geared up to sell players to bigger leagues, or the academies of mega-clubs. Chelsea and Liverpool in particular have been very good at obtaining a premium for their unwanted graduates, whilst Liverpool are masters at kidding the world that a player with their 'branding' must be better than he actually is (Jordan Ibe, Dominic Solanke etc). What I can't see anywhere is an example of anyone our size building a successful top-ten club on the back of promoting and/or selling academy graduates. Southampton had a prolonged period of talent-production, but it didn't help their team to higher league placings, or stop the club falling into the Championship. As others have said, we did once produce the team of the 80's, and are in a unique catchment area, so perhaps we could produce two players a year on average good enough to keep us in the top ten and/or sell at a profit. I think we would be the exception to the rule if we can manage to do it though. I don't think anyone is suggesting that, but there's no reason we can't supplement our first team squad with academy graduates, with the odd gem coming along every few years. It's not an either/or - the correct model is obviously a combination of recruitment and development, but the upsides to a productive academy are obvious and absolutely worth trying.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 06 Nov 23 1.18pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Sullay KaiKai has nearly 200 football league appearances and is an international for Sierra Leone. Hiram Boateng also pushing 200 professional games across League One and League Two Jason Lokilo is with Hull in the Championship. Rob Street is in league one. Ryan Innis has 100+ football league appearances and now with Forest Green in League Two. There's also Keshi Andersen and Freddie Ladapo who are both Championship forwards - we signed both for our academy, as opposed to developed them from kids. Again to hammer the point, we've had below average academy facilities for nearly all of the last 10 years, so I think it's a poor measuring stick as to what we'll be capable of moving forward. A sign of how far Charlton have fallen last transfer window their fans were wistfully hoping they would sign him whilst acknowledging he was out of their league. Edited by Badger11 (06 Nov 2023 1.18pm)
One more point |
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