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Roy & the Bench Boys ( our Subs )

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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 17 Dec 23 12.22pm
Roy has been a top class manager throughout most of his career, coaching, team pattens, etc. but he is always a safety first manager and goes back to who, he thinks, are safe, that is why he needs to, in his last 5 months, go for a few gambles with the youngsters. Jairo, Hughes, Schlupp, Ward, Clyne and Tomkins all out of contract in June, i would only give a year to Schlupp. Ozoh, Amahada, Boteng and Phillips need to be the back up for Doucoure and Lerma next season. “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 17 Dec 23 12.22pm

Roy has been a top class manager throughout most of his career, coaching, team pattens, etc. but he is always a safety first manager and goes back to who, he thinks, are safe, that is why he needs to, in his last 5 months, go for a few gambles with the youngsters. Jairo, Hughes, Schlupp, Ward, Clyne and Tomkins all out of contract in June, i would only give a year to Schlupp. Ozoh, Amahada, Boteng and Phillips need to be the back up for Doucoure and Lerma next season.

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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Putitout Oxford 17 Dec 23 12.29pm
Originally posted by PatrickA I don't think he's a bitter old man nor a bad football manager. I listened to his complete press conference, and from the horse's mouth so to speak his whole approach to the game was dictated by who were the most senior players available. This meant even including Riedewald who he's been reluctant to use in matchday squads recently. Lewis Miley is 17 and once he got in the Newcastle team he's stayed in even when senior players are available. I doubt he'd be retaining his place under Roy. Doesn't make me anti Roy. It's just an observation based on Roy's own words and actions. Hodgsons tactics yesterday were the only way to have got any sort of result yesterday, It needed the rigid discipline of experience to get to 76minutes only two down. Even the very best come unstuck trying to mix it with City. 10/15 minutes with their fresh legs the younger players didn’t let anyone down including themselves. But if anyone thinks they could have played a roll earlier and turned City over , it has to rank as wishful thinking. Every now and again a player appears early somewhere and takes all before them. Why not mentionJude Bellingham, It’s no.good saying ,because a young player appears exceptional at Newcastle, all our youngsters need is someone to think they’re exceptional . And their is a chance Roy would bring Miley on at a slower pace, but only because he is not managing Newcastle , and able to surround the boy with a team already one of the best in the league. Hodgsons job is to keep us in the Premier, Parish, is never shy to view the Championship as a disaster , unless our young players were in fact really exceptional, only experience gives him the chance to do that. Outside of Franca, when Palace have bought in young players they have been young players with loads of top performances behind them in the Championship.. The man has nothing against young players, but Palaces situation demands experience to deal with it, Shlupp, , made experience pay yesterday, breaking their line like that was magic, didn’t need younger legs. Edited by Putitout (17 Dec 2023 12.31pm)
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Putitout

Oxford 17 Dec 23 12.29pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

I don't think he's a bitter old man nor a bad football manager.

I listened to his complete press conference, and from the horse's mouth so to speak his whole approach to the game was dictated by who were the most senior players available.
This meant even including Riedewald who he's been reluctant to use in matchday squads recently.

Lewis Miley is 17 and once he got in the Newcastle team he's stayed in even when senior players are available.
I doubt he'd be retaining his place under Roy.
Doesn't make me anti Roy.
It's just an observation based on Roy's own words and actions.

Hodgsons tactics yesterday were the only way to have got any sort of result yesterday,
It needed the rigid discipline of experience to get to 76minutes only two down. Even the very best come unstuck trying to mix it with City. 10/15 minutes with their fresh legs the younger players didn’t let anyone down including themselves. But if anyone thinks they could have played a roll earlier and turned City over , it has to rank as wishful thinking.
Every now and again a player appears early somewhere and takes all before them. Why not mentionJude Bellingham, It’s no.good saying ,because a young player appears exceptional at Newcastle, all our youngsters need is someone to think they’re exceptional .
And their is a chance Roy would bring Miley on at a slower pace, but only because he is not managing Newcastle , and able to surround the boy with a team already one of the best in the league.
Hodgsons job is to keep us in the Premier, Parish, is never shy to view the Championship as a disaster , unless our young players were in fact really exceptional, only experience gives him the chance to do that. Outside of Franca, when Palace have bought in young players they have been young players with loads of top performances behind them in the Championship.. The man has nothing against young players, but Palaces situation demands experience to deal with it, Shlupp, , made experience pay yesterday, breaking their line like that was magic, didn’t need younger legs.

Edited by Putitout (17 Dec 2023 12.31pm)

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PatrickA London 17 Dec 23 2.02pm
Pep preferred 19 year old Rico Lewis in midfield to the experience of internationals Phillips and Kovacic. It's what the player will contribute rather than how experienced or senior he is that will determine the selection. Riedewald has never been anything other than a bit part player under Roy and he was actively trying to sell him under his last tenure. He's in his mid twenties, but does that alone mean he will contribute more than the younger player? I'm not picking on Riedewald, who I think has attributes, but it's clear he's not really in Roy's plans. The point that some are meking is that Roy will always prefer the senior player and as manager he's obviously entitled to do that. However, other managers are more encouraging of youth and work under the adage 'if you're good enough you're old enough.'
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PatrickA

London 17 Dec 23 2.02pm

Pep preferred 19 year old Rico Lewis in midfield to the experience of internationals Phillips and Kovacic.

It's what the player will contribute rather than how experienced or senior he is that will determine the selection.

Riedewald has never been anything other than a bit part player under Roy and he was actively trying to sell him under his last tenure.
He's in his mid twenties, but does that alone mean he will contribute more than the younger player?
I'm not picking on Riedewald, who I think has attributes, but it's clear he's not really in Roy's plans.

The point that some are meking is that Roy will always prefer the senior player and as manager he's obviously entitled to do that.
However, other managers are more encouraging of youth and work under the adage 'if you're good enough you're old enough.'

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Plaistow Eagle 17 Dec 23 2.13pm
Originally posted by PatrickA Pep preferred 19 year old Rico Lewis in midfield to the experience of internationals Phillips and Kovacic. It's what the player will contribute rather than how experienced or senior he is that will determine the selection. Riedewald has never been anything other than a bit part player under Roy and he was actively trying to sell him under his last tenure. He's in his mid twenties, but does that alone mean he will contribute more than the younger player? I'm not picking on Riedewald, who I think has attributes, but it's clear he's not really in Roy's plans. The point that some are meking is that Roy will always prefer the senior player and as manager he's obviously entitled to do that. However, other managers are more encouraging of youth and work under the adage 'if you're good enough you're old enough.' 100% agree..!! COYP
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Plaistow Eagle

17 Dec 23 2.13pm

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Originally posted by PatrickA

Pep preferred 19 year old Rico Lewis in midfield to the experience of internationals Phillips and Kovacic.

It's what the player will contribute rather than how experienced or senior he is that will determine the selection.

100% agree..!!

COYP

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dreamwaverider London 17 Dec 23 2.20pm
Originally posted by PatrickA I don't think he's a bitter old man nor a bad football manager. I listened to his complete press conference, and from the horse's mouth so to speak his whole approach to the game was dictated by who were the most senior players available. This meant even including Riedewald who he's been reluctant to use in matchday squads recently. Lewis Miley is 17 and once he got in the Newcastle team he's stayed in even when senior players are available. I doubt he'd be retaining his place under Roy. Doesn't make me anti Roy. It's just an observation based on Roy's own words and actions. My observation is Eddie Howe is about half Roy's age. Miley is about half Edie's age. Ward is about half Roy's age. Miley is about half Clyne's age. Never was much good at algebra (probably not taught anymore anyway) Not sure whether there is much to make of this either.
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dreamwaverider

London 17 Dec 23 2.20pm

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Originally posted by PatrickA

I don't think he's a bitter old man nor a bad football manager.

My observation is Eddie Howe is about half Roy's age. Miley is about half Edie's age.
Ward is about half Roy's age. Miley is about half Clyne's age.
Never was much good at algebra (probably not taught anymore anyway)
Not sure whether there is much to make of this either.

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Putitout Oxford 17 Dec 23 2.28pm
Originally posted by PatrickA Pep preferred 19 year old Rico Lewis in midfield to the experience of internationals Phillips and Kovacic. It's what the player will contribute rather than how experienced or senior he is that will determine the selection. Riedewald has never been anything other than a bit part player under Roy and he was actively trying to sell him under his last tenure. He's in his mid twenties, but does that alone mean he will contribute more than the younger player? I'm not picking on Riedewald, who I think has attributes, but it's clear he's not really in Roy's plans. The point that some are meking is that Roy will always prefer the senior player and as manager he's obviously entitled to do that. However, other managers are more encouraging of youth and work under the adage 'if you're good enough you're old enough.' What next ? Rico has appeared multiple times for City, both in the Premier league, and the Champions league. And capped for England. He is another exception able to develop in the folds of a mega talented team. On this occasion it was Palace , Pep was playing , with the greatest of respect ,with their record ,and the team we presented. It should have been no contest, and his selection probably had that in mind. Ricos record compares to all of our very best players ,I’m talking Olize, Eze, if we have another one like those two would be great but as of yet that has been nowhere near apparent. Roy works under the adage that you play when you are good enough. It’s totally disrespectful to think he his opinions are crap. Added to this, both Mitchell, and AWB , came in he didn’t drop them, he knew they had what he wanted from them, that’s the name of the game and the present crop are slow to be trusted as they were ,that’s the problem whether fans like it or not. Edited by Putitout (17 Dec 2023 2.46pm)
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Putitout

Oxford 17 Dec 23 2.28pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

Pep preferred 19 year old Rico Lewis in midfield to the experience of internationals Phillips and Kovacic.

It's what the player will contribute rather than how experienced or senior he is that will determine the selection.

What next ? Rico has appeared multiple times for City, both in the Premier league, and the Champions league. And capped for England. He is another exception able to develop in the folds of a mega talented team. On this occasion it was Palace , Pep was playing , with the greatest of respect ,with their record ,and the team we presented. It should have been no contest, and his selection probably had that in mind.
Ricos record compares to all of our very best players ,I’m talking Olize, Eze, if we have another one like those two would be great but as of yet that has been nowhere near apparent. Roy works under the adage that you play when you are good enough. It’s totally disrespectful to think he his opinions are crap.
Added to this, both Mitchell, and AWB , came in he didn’t drop them, he knew they had what he wanted from them, that’s the name of the game and the present crop are slow to be trusted as they were ,that’s the problem whether fans like it or not.

Edited by Putitout (17 Dec 2023 2.46pm)

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PatrickA London 17 Dec 23 2.49pm
I never said his opinions are crap. I said he prefers senior players , as he’s entitled to do. Other managers are willing to trust youth more and will look beyond experience when selecting a team . He apologised a few weeks ago for denigrating the young players but was at it again yesterday. He mentioned that Franca had done well yesterday but had to add, ‘ he found it easier at 2-1 down than if he had started.’ Pouring cold water on it rather than just saying ‘he did well and it was very encouraging.’ It’s not the youngsters who have led us to win one game at home all season and turn in some abject performances this season. It’s the experienced ones. No doubt the retort will be that the performances would have been worse with the younger players. Of that we will never know.
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PatrickA

London 17 Dec 23 2.49pm

I never said his opinions are crap.
I said he prefers senior players , as he’s entitled to do.
Other managers are willing to trust youth more and will look beyond experience when selecting a team .
He apologised a few weeks ago for denigrating the young players but was at it again yesterday.
He mentioned that Franca had done well yesterday but had to add, ‘ he found it easier at 2-1 down than if he had started.’
Pouring cold water on it rather than just saying ‘he did well and it was very encouraging.’

It’s not the youngsters who have led us to win one game at home all season and turn in some abject performances this season.
It’s the experienced ones.

No doubt the retort will be that the performances would have been worse with the younger players.
Of that we will never know.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 17 Dec 23 3.06pm
So if it was all going wrong for Rico Lewis, Pep has Kovacic and Phillips on the bench. If one of our youngsters was struggling, we would have the experienced players that are being frequently criticised on here. Not really a fair comparison is it…… Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 17 Dec 23 3.06pm

So if it was all going wrong for Rico Lewis, Pep has Kovacic and Phillips on the bench.

If one of our youngsters was struggling, we would have the experienced players that are being frequently criticised on here.

Not really a fair comparison is it……

Old, Ungifted and White

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PatrickA London 17 Dec 23 3.38pm
It's not just Pep though is it? It's Dyche at Everton playing young Branthwaite when he has experienced Keane and Godfrey who cost a lot of money as options. It's Howe playing 17 year old Miley even when Longstaff was fit. It's Silva playing Massey when he has experienced alternatives. It's surprising that people seem to close their mind to even the faintest possibilty that the young players could have had more opportunities this season, particularly when the experienced players that Roy has continued to select have turned in some some awful performances with very poor results. Would some of the aforementioned managers have played Ozoh yesterday rather than Riedewald? It has to be a possibility. I think Roy's a good manager, but it still seems reasonable to be able to at least question his reliance on out of form players merely based on their experience.
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PatrickA

London 17 Dec 23 3.38pm

It's not just Pep though is it?
It's Dyche at Everton playing young Branthwaite when he has experienced Keane and Godfrey who cost a lot of money as options.
It's Howe playing 17 year old Miley even when Longstaff was fit.
It's Silva playing Massey when he has experienced alternatives.

It's surprising that people seem to close their mind to even the faintest possibilty that the young players could have had more opportunities this season, particularly when the experienced players that Roy has continued to select have turned in some some awful performances with very poor results.

Would some of the aforementioned managers have played Ozoh yesterday rather than Riedewald?
It has to be a possibility.

I think Roy's a good manager, but it still seems reasonable to be able to at least question his reliance on out of form players merely based on their experience.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 17 Dec 23 4.11pm
Originally posted by PatrickA It's not just Pep though is it? It's Dyche at Everton playing young Branthwaite when he has experienced Keane and Godfrey who cost a lot of money as options. It's Howe playing 17 year old Miley even when Longstaff was fit. It's Silva playing Massey when he has experienced alternatives. It's surprising that people seem to close their mind to even the faintest possibilty that the young players could have had more opportunities this season, particularly when the experienced players that Roy has continued to select have turned in some some awful performances with very poor results. Would some of the aforementioned managers have played Ozoh yesterday rather than Riedewald? It has to be a possibility. I think Roy's a good manager, but it still seems reasonable to be able to at least question his reliance on out of form players merely based on their experience. It's not just Pep, but the examples you gave kind of endorse the point I was making. Good, outstanding young talent that have earned a starting role, but with decent, experienced players ready to come on if required. Do we have that ? - I'm not convinced. Roy has and always will trust experience over youth. Maybe Parish, the man who stated he wanted to create a pathway from the Academy into the first team should have given that a little more thought beyond the short termism of preserving our PL place. I think Rak-Sakhi would have seen more action but for his injury. Of the other genuine contenders ( only my opinion ) I think Ozoh and Franca are being brought along gradually in the expectation that they will have more minutes as the season progresses. As an aside, Parish also said before the Bournemouth game that he was looking for experienced players in the loan market in January ! Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 17 Dec 23 4.11pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

Would some of the aforementioned managers have played Ozoh yesterday rather than Riedewald?
It has to be a possibility.

I think Roy's a good manager, but it still seems reasonable to be able to at least question his reliance on out of form players merely based on their experience.

It's not just Pep, but the examples you gave kind of endorse the point I was making. Good, outstanding young talent that have earned a starting role, but with decent, experienced players ready to come on if required. Do we have that ? - I'm not convinced.

Roy has and always will trust experience over youth. Maybe Parish, the man who stated he wanted to create a pathway from the Academy into the first team should have given that a little more thought beyond the short termism of preserving our PL place.

I think Rak-Sakhi would have seen more action but for his injury. Of the other genuine contenders ( only my opinion ) I think Ozoh and Franca are being brought along gradually in the expectation that they will have more minutes as the season progresses.

As an aside, Parish also said before the Bournemouth game that he was looking for experienced players in the loan market in January !

Old, Ungifted and White

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pssguy 17 Dec 23 4.16pm
It will be ironic if, on Thursday, Doris's grandson, 18 year old Jack skips past Hughes, Riedewald and Ward before slotting home the winner against us whilst Franca and Ozoh look on from the bench
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pssguy

17 Dec 23 4.16pm

It will be ironic if, on Thursday, Doris's grandson, 18 year old Jack skips past Hughes, Riedewald and Ward before slotting home the winner against us whilst Franca and Ozoh look on from the bench

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PatrickA London 17 Dec 23 4.50pm
But these managers played the younger players because the older players weren't doing it (e.g Branthwaite in for out of form Keane). Roy hasn't made the same call on our out of form experienced players. Some will say the young players can't be ready, Roy sees them in training, Roy is great etc etc. But in truth , could our young players have turned in any poorer performances than some of our senior players this season? Moreover, if our younger players disappointed when starting matches we would have the experience of e.g Schlupp, Hughes to come off the bench. Don't get me wrong; if Lerma, Eze and Ayew come back into the team for Brighton that's justifiable and good news. However, if any of them have to come off I wouldn't be averse to seeing Ozoh or Franca coming on and trusting them to make an impact instead of relying on the usual suspects. Originally posted by NEILLO It's not just Pep, but the examples you gave kind of endorse the point I was making. Good, outstanding young talent that have earned a starting role, but with decent, experienced players ready to come on if required. Do we have that ? - I'm not convinced. Roy has and always will trust experience over youth. Maybe Parish, the man who stated he wanted to create a pathway from the Academy into the first team should have given that a little more thought beyond the short termism of preserving our PL place. I think Rak-Sakhi would have seen more action but for his injury. Of the other genuine contenders ( only my opinion ) I think Ozoh and Franca are being brought along gradually in the expectation that they will have more minutes as the season progresses. As an aside, Parish also said before the Bournemouth game that he was looking for experienced players in the loan market in January !
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PatrickA

London 17 Dec 23 4.50pm

But these managers played the younger players because the older players weren't doing it (e.g Branthwaite in for out of form Keane).
Roy hasn't made the same call on our out of form experienced players.
Some will say the young players can't be ready, Roy sees them in training, Roy is great etc etc.
But in truth , could our young players have turned in any poorer performances than some of our senior players this season?

Moreover, if our younger players disappointed when starting matches we would have the experience of e.g Schlupp, Hughes to come off the bench.

Don't get me wrong; if Lerma, Eze and Ayew come back into the team for Brighton that's justifiable and good news.
However, if any of them have to come off I wouldn't be averse to seeing Ozoh or Franca coming on and trusting them to make an impact instead of relying on the usual suspects.

Originally posted by NEILLO

As an aside, Parish also said before the Bournemouth game that he was looking for experienced players in the loan market in January !

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