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Church and State
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 Stirlingsays  12 May 23 10.24pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Archbishop Welby has just been done for speeding. LOL Must have been on Top Gear.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 georgenorman 13 May 23 7.23am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
This might be true, but only a fool has faith in something that is clearly imaginary. I have no problem with people believing in nonsense until they try and tell me what to think and do. We have laws to maintain society, but people who are good don't need them to do the right thing. Bad people will always find ways to break them. There is still plenty of room for morality in today's world, but religion should have been banished decades ago. Sadly, there is always a fresh batch of the gullible to indoctrinate. Some claim that our morality is based on religious teaching, but I would suggest that it is the other way round. Man invented God and the Devil, and mankind has to uphold its own standards. There is no god to judge anyone or save us from our own stupidity. Our Church is weak, and I'm grateful for that. I can live a life free from fear or damnation and enforced dogma. Anyone who ever tries to take that away from the British should be instantly scrubbed out. “He was an embittered atheist, the sort of atheist who does not so much disbelieve in God as personally dislike Him.” [Orwell, Down and Out in Paris and London,1933]
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 May 23 9.13am |
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Originally posted by Matov
And so what? People with a faith in a higher power have far better life outcomes than those without. On almost every metric conceivable, believers live happier lives than those with nothing other than a belief that you are merely a complex virus.
Rationality is going to kill Western Civilisation stone dead. It is an evolutionary dead-end. Embrace the irrationality of believing in something bigger than yourself. Sure, us Crackers might be dinosaurs with a dirty big rainbow coloured meteor heading towards us but we can still make a choice of being the kind of dinosaur that quivers at the back of a cave, festering in its own excrement and apologising for existing. Or the kind who stands in the sun, screaming defiance and getting ready to head-but that meteor full on with a belief that something better lays ahead, no matter what. And nothing like a bit of Friday night hyperbole!
We do, and our society would not exist without them. What though lay at the heart of hearts of their motivation? Was it truly and only a belief in a God, or something deeper than that? I believe good people are good, whatever their environment and upbringing teach them. People who want to make the world better exist with, and without, beliefs. It's our shared humanity which drives us. We are not in an evolutionary dead end at all. We are in the post-religion branch. Our knowledge has evolved to the point that what was once taught as incontrovertible is now largely regarded as impossible. Having reached that point there is no turning back. You cannot unknow things. People will continue to serve and do good. Most of us want to leave the world in a slightly better way for us being here. Most can only do that in small ways, with family and love. Some though in bigger ways. There are those who just want to take, and not to give, but I think they are a minority. I believe in humanity, not in Gods. So I don't see us cowering somewhere to hide from your death meteor. I see us striving for life and reaching out for as much of it as possible. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (13 May 2023 9.14am)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 13 May 23 11.18am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
We do, and our society would not exist without them. What though lay at the heart of hearts of their motivation? Was it truly and only a belief in a God, or something deeper than that? I believe good people are good, whatever their environment and upbringing teach them. People who want to make the world better exist with, and without, beliefs. It's our shared humanity which drives us. We are not in an evolutionary dead end at all. We are in the post-religion branch. Our knowledge has evolved to the point that what was once taught as incontrovertible is now largely regarded as impossible. Having reached that point there is no turning back. You cannot unknow things. People will continue to serve and do good. Most of us want to leave the world in a slightly better way for us being here. Most can only do that in small ways, with family and love. Some though in bigger ways. There are those who just want to take, and not to give, but I think they are a minority. I believe in humanity, not in Gods. So I don't see us cowering somewhere to hide from your death meteor. I see us striving for life and reaching out for as much of it as possible. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (13 May 2023 9.14am) Hitler and Stalin would argue that that was what they were doing.
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| footythoughts Beckenham 13 May 23 11.28am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Hitler and Stalin would argue that that was what they were doing. Godwin's law's fine again now I see. Edited by footythoughts (13 May 2023 11.33am)
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| footythoughts Beckenham 13 May 23 11.31am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
This might be true, but only a fool has faith in something that is clearly imaginary. I have no problem with people believing in nonsense until they try and tell me what to think and do. We have laws to maintain society, but people who are good don't need them to do the right thing. Bad people will always find ways to break them. There is still plenty of room for morality in today's world, but religion should have been banished decades ago. Sadly, there is always a fresh batch of the gullible to indoctrinate. Some claim that our morality is based on religious teaching, but I would suggest that it is the other way round. Man invented God and the Devil, and mankind has to uphold its own standards. There is no god to judge anyone or save us from our own stupidity. Our Church is weak, and I'm grateful for that. I can live a life free from fear or damnation and enforced dogma. Anyone who ever tries to take that away from the British should be instantly scrubbed out. Sounds about right to me. If people adopt a personal religion within their own life, or with positive wider intention go for it. Ultimately though it's clearly Father Christmas territory so there's little need to knock on my door trying to get me on side with it, or to claim that morality cannot exist outside of it.
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| georgenorman 13 May 23 2.58pm |
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Originally posted by footythoughts
Sounds about right to me. If people adopt a personal religion within their own life, or with positive wider intention go for it. Ultimately though it's clearly Father Christmas territory so there's little need to knock on my door trying to get me on side with it, or to claim that morality cannot exist outside of it. “When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything.” [attributed to G.K. Chesterton]
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| footythoughts Beckenham 13 May 23 4.08pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
“When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything.” [attributed to G.K. Chesterton] Which God do you believe in? As I say, people can believe whatever they please and certainly I agree that many believe wacky things, but it doesn't have to be a choice between one wacky set of beliefs or another. Much has been done in the name of religion, it's not all roses or beliefs that schools and hospitals wouldn't be present without religion, when of course they would.
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| georgenorman 13 May 23 5.06pm |
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Originally posted by footythoughts
Which God do you believe in? As I say, people can believe whatever they please and certainly I agree that many believe wacky things, but it doesn't have to be a choice between one wacky set of beliefs or another. Much has been done in the name of religion, it's not all roses or beliefs that schools and hospitals wouldn't be present without religion, when of course they would. Sometimes I believe there is a God, sometimes I don't.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 13 May 23 6.31pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Sometimes I believe there is a God, sometimes I don't. I think that applies to most of us, I have always been conflicted. I would think he is definitely not responsible for what happens in his name, how could he be really.
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| georgenorman 13 May 23 6.49pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
I think that applies to most of us, I have always been conflicted. I would think he is definitely not responsible for what happens in his name, how could he be really. Blimey Steeleye we agree! It's a miracle!
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| steeleye20 Croydon 13 May 23 7.00pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Blimey Steeleye we agree! It's a miracle! There we are G, I'm sending you a Wardy 'ole' to celebrate it!
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