Rules is rules aren't they?

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Rules is rules aren't they?

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Goal Machine The Cronx 04 Oct 22 5.01pm
Originally posted by Nicholas91 If that's not a clear goal scoring opportunity and deliberate foul play I really don't know what is. Any player who has the ball there is expected to bear down on goal and score. Anything less and it would be seen as a huge opportunity wasted. Could tell at the time is was a clear goal scoring opportunity and this just confirms it. It was a double offence 1. DCGSO, 2. deliberate handball. Can't understand how the ref didn't give it as a red. I don't buy into bigger clubs getting preferential treatment, I just think the referee has had a shocker on this occasion. Would have been confident of seeing out a win against 10 men from there, so could argue its cost us 3 points. It's swings and roundabouts and they usually even out over the course of the season - we had one in our favour at Newcastle the other week.
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Goal Machine

The Cronx 04 Oct 22 5.01pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

If that's not a clear goal scoring opportunity and deliberate foul play I really don't know what is.

Any player who has the ball there is expected to bear down on goal and score. Anything less and it would be seen as a huge opportunity wasted.

Could tell at the time is was a clear goal scoring opportunity and this just confirms it.

It was a double offence 1. DCGSO, 2. deliberate handball. Can't understand how the ref didn't give it as a red.

I don't buy into bigger clubs getting preferential treatment, I just think the referee has had a shocker on this occasion. Would have been confident of seeing out a win against 10 men from there, so could argue its cost us 3 points.

It's swings and roundabouts and they usually even out over the course of the season - we had one in our favour at Newcastle the other week.

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est1905 04 Oct 22 5.11pm
They deliberately make rules as clear as mud these days so they can be bent to suit the bigger club. Dermot Gallagher reckons that because it was a 'possible' goal scoring opportunity instead of a 'clear' goal scoring opportunity it is therefore a yellow card and not a red. Absolute rubbish. There is nothing in the rules that states a difference between possible and clear. In fact the word possible doesn't even show up in the rules. If Ayew is the last man then he is denying a goal scoring opportunity and should be sent off. That is the rules. However, referees AND VAR operators will side with the bigger club and come out with a load of political guff to justify their bias. Plus they stick together and back each other up. This is why there is no point in VAR. its open to the exact same corruption as the referees themselves.
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est1905

04 Oct 22 5.11pm

They deliberately make rules as clear as mud these days so they can be bent to suit the bigger club.
Dermot Gallagher reckons that because it was a 'possible' goal scoring opportunity instead of a 'clear' goal scoring opportunity it is therefore a yellow card and not a red. Absolute rubbish. There is nothing in the rules that states a difference between possible and clear. In fact the word possible doesn't even show up in the rules. If Ayew is the last man then he is denying a goal scoring opportunity and should be sent off. That is the rules.
However, referees AND VAR operators will side with the bigger club and come out with a load of political guff to justify their bias. Plus they stick together and back each other up.
This is why there is no point in VAR. its open to the exact same corruption as the referees themselves.

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eagle@ tn34 hastings 04 Oct 22 7.12pm
all i can say is that last defenders now know ,if they can force the opponent out on a wider angle, that they can foul, handle the ball, pull the shirt etc, kick the player = only a yellow as the player was not heading towards goal. A new precedent has been created COYP
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eagle@ tn34

hastings 04 Oct 22 7.12pm

all i can say is that last defenders now know ,if they can force the opponent out on a wider angle, that they can foul, handle the ball, pull the shirt etc, kick the player = only a yellow as the player was not heading towards goal.
A new precedent has been created

COYP

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West Stand Dorchester 04 Oct 22 8.07pm
Originally posted by est1905 They deliberately make rules as clear as mud these days so they can be bent to suit the bigger club. Dermot Gallagher reckons that because it was a 'possible' goal scoring opportunity instead of a 'clear' goal scoring opportunity it is therefore a yellow card and not a red. Absolute rubbish. There is nothing in the rules that states a difference between possible and clear. In fact the word possible doesn't even show up in the rules. If Ayew is the last man then he is denying a goal scoring opportunity and should be sent off. That is the rules. However, referees AND VAR operators will side with the bigger club and come out with a load of political guff to justify their bias. Plus they stick together and back each other up. This is why there is no point in VAR. its open to the exact same corruption as the referees themselves. [ It’s actually not the rules/law as being last man isn’t something that’s a factor. As for Gallaghers use of the word possible he was making the point that it was possibly a goal sorting opportunity and not an obvious goal scoring opportunity here’s the wording of Law 12 Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence, the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area).
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West Stand

Dorchester 04 Oct 22 8.07pm

Originally posted by est1905

It’s actually not the rules/law as being last man isn’t something that’s a factor.

As for Gallaghers use of the word possible he was making the point that it was possibly a goal sorting opportunity and not an obvious goal scoring opportunity here’s the wording of Law 12

Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence, the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area).

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TheBigToePunt 04 Oct 22 8.53pm
Originally posted by CrazyBadger Question: Ignoring Team colours.... If that was Haaland/Salah/Messi instead of Ayew, would that have constituted a Clear Goal Scoring opportunity ? Interesting question that. I mean, obviously a world class player is more likely to score than a mediocre one, and even if you ignore the standard of the player in question, a fast attacking player is far more likely to capitalise on an opportunity than a slow defensive player is. Where would you stop once you start differentiating? Perhaps you could factor in whether the attacking player had the ball on his stronger or weaker foot? Or what kind of form he's been in. Or if he's carrying an injury. I mean, we would all instinctively recognise the role these things play in how dangerous a chance is, but I don't believe referees can or do factor in the identity of the player.
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TheBigToePunt

04 Oct 22 8.53pm

Originally posted by CrazyBadger

Question: Ignoring Team colours.... If that was Haaland/Salah/Messi instead of Ayew, would that have constituted a Clear Goal Scoring opportunity ?

Interesting question that. I mean, obviously a world class player is more likely to score than a mediocre one, and even if you ignore the standard of the player in question, a fast attacking player is far more likely to capitalise on an opportunity than a slow defensive player is.

Where would you stop once you start differentiating? Perhaps you could factor in whether the attacking player had the ball on his stronger or weaker foot? Or what kind of form he's been in. Or if he's carrying an injury. I mean, we would all instinctively recognise the role these things play in how dangerous a chance is, but I don't believe referees can or do factor in the identity of the player.

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KLEAGLE2 Shirley 04 Oct 22 10.23pm
How often do you see a player losing the ball deliberately punch the ball away....never. Why did Silva then? Because he damn well knew he was the last man and Ayew would be in on goal. His reaction alone surely meant the ref should have given a red.
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KLEAGLE2

Shirley 04 Oct 22 10.23pm

How often do you see a player losing the ball deliberately punch the ball away....never. Why did Silva then?
Because he damn well knew he was the last man and Ayew would be in on goal. His reaction alone surely meant the ref should have given a red.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 04 Oct 22 11.51pm
I did just post this on the match thread and only just seen this thread so I'll post it on here as well. Now don't shoot me down here but as a qualified referee I'll give my take on the Silva incident. Now clearly it was an obvious handball and it was what is known as a DOGSO (Denying a goal or an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity) When you get taught about DOGSO on your referee course you're told to take into account the Distance to the goal, the Direction the attacker is travelling and the distance of the other defenders from the ball. I'll admit this one was a tough one but taking my Palace glasses off and putting my referee glasses on Ayew was to the left hand side of the pitch. His direction of travel was to the left and not towards the goal. His distance from goal was still about 35 yards and there was another defender, apart from Silva level with him or just behind him when the foul occurred. I think taking all that into consideration I can see why a yellow was given and not a red. However it was a tight one I'll admit. I hope this explains things a little bit for everyone. Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 04 Oct 22 11.51pm

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I did just post this on the match thread and only just seen this thread so I'll post it on here as well.

Now don't shoot me down here but as a qualified referee I'll give my take on the Silva incident.

Now clearly it was an obvious handball and it was what is known as a DOGSO (Denying a goal or an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity)

When you get taught about DOGSO on your referee course you're told to take into account the Distance to the goal, the Direction the attacker is travelling and the distance of the other defenders from the ball.

I'll admit this one was a tough one but taking my Palace glasses off and putting my referee glasses on Ayew was to the left hand side of the pitch. His direction of travel was to the left and not towards the goal. His distance from goal was still about 35 yards and there was another defender, apart from Silva level with him or just behind him when the foul occurred.

I think taking all that into consideration I can see why a yellow was given and not a red.

However it was a tight one I'll admit. I hope this explains things a little bit for everyone.

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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CrazyBadger Ware 05 Oct 22 10.58am
Originally posted by KLEAGLE2 How often do you see a player losing the ball deliberately punch the ball away....never. Why did Silva then? Because he damn well knew he was the last man and Ayew would be in on goal. His reaction alone surely meant the ref should have given a red. You regularily see players, who have been, or think then have been fouled falling on the ball, and often using their hands in anticipation of the ref blowing the foul. I Think this or a variation on this is what Silva was doing, except that Ayew didn't foul him - it was a valid shoulder charge (that the right term?) to win The ball.. Ayew was simply stronger than Silva. When the Ref doesn't blow a foul, then its intentional handball. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 05 Oct 22 10.58am

Originally posted by KLEAGLE2

You regularily see players, who have been, or think then have been fouled falling on the ball, and often using their hands in anticipation of the ref blowing the foul.
I Think this or a variation on this is what Silva was doing, except that Ayew didn't foul him - it was a valid shoulder charge (that the right term?) to win The ball.. Ayew was simply stronger than Silva.
When the Ref doesn't blow a foul, then its intentional handball.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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CrazyBadger Ware 05 Oct 22 11.05am
Originally posted by TheBigToePunt Interesting question that. I mean, obviously a world class player is more likely to score than a mediocre one, and even if you ignore the standard of the player in question, a fast attacking player is far more likely to capitalise on an opportunity than a slow defensive player is. Where would you stop once you start differentiating? Perhaps you could factor in whether the attacking player had the ball on his stronger or weaker foot? Or what kind of form he's been in. Or if he's carrying an injury. I mean, we would all instinctively recognise the role these things play in how dangerous a chance is, but I don't believe referees can or do factor in the identity of the player. obivously I should have added Mbappe to that list With his speed, he could have easily reached the goal, and thus a 1on1 with the keeper before any of the covering defenders could get there. IMHO, you cannot penalise a situation like this for one player and not another. Which way should it go? FWIW, I don't buy into the corruption of refs - not intentionally, anyway. I just think their levels of incompetency seemingly know no bounds. BUT (and it's a big but) the rulebook does not help them. "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 05 Oct 22 11.05am

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

obivously I should have added Mbappe to that list

With his speed, he could have easily reached the goal, and thus a 1on1 with the keeper before any of the covering defenders could get there.

IMHO, you cannot penalise a situation like this for one player and not another. Which way should it go?

FWIW, I don't buy into the corruption of refs - not intentionally, anyway. I just think their levels of incompetency seemingly know no bounds.
BUT (and it's a big but) the rulebook does not help them.

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 05 Oct 22 11.33am
I was out with 3 Chelsea supporting mates on Monday night. They all thought that it should have been a red card. If you look at it from a moral standpoint, yes it should have been. Because that was deliberate cheating. The argument about whether it denied Ayew a genuine clear goal scoring opportunity is something of a red herring in my opinion. Silva would not have known whether he had cover or not, so he resorted to the handball. And in doing so also removed any prospect of the referee playing advantage. In this case, I don't think the punishment fit the crime. However the rule book allows otherwise. In general, we were not fairly treated by the officials. Right from the moment that Edouard was given that early yellow card. If you watched the Leeds / Villa game the next day, Koch committed a similar foul well into the game but was not booked. Later in the match he got what should have been his second yellow. No consistency in the application of the laws by the referees has always been an issue but seems to be getting worse. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 05 Oct 22 11.33am

I was out with 3 Chelsea supporting mates on Monday night.

They all thought that it should have been a red card.

If you look at it from a moral standpoint, yes it should have been. Because that was deliberate cheating. The argument about whether it denied Ayew a genuine clear goal scoring opportunity is something of a red herring in my opinion. Silva would not have known whether he had cover or not, so he resorted to the handball. And in doing so also removed any prospect of the referee playing advantage.

In this case, I don't think the punishment fit the crime. However the rule book allows otherwise.

In general, we were not fairly treated by the officials. Right from the moment that Edouard was given that early yellow card. If you watched the Leeds / Villa game the next day, Koch committed a similar foul well into the game but was not booked. Later in the match he got what should have been his second yellow. No consistency in the application of the laws by the referees has always been an issue but seems to be getting worse.

Old, Ungifted and White

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mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 05 Oct 22 11.42am
Originally posted by NEILLO I was out with 3 Chelsea supporting mates on Monday night. They all thought that it should have been a red card. If you look at it from a moral standpoint, yes it should have been. Because that was deliberate cheating. The argument about whether it denied Ayew a genuine clear goal scoring opportunity is something of a red herring in my opinion. Silva would not have known whether he had cover or not, so he resorted to the handball. And in doing so also removed any prospect of the referee playing advantage. In this case, I don't think the punishment fit the crime. However the rule book allows otherwise. In general, we were not fairly treated by the officials. Right from the moment that Edouard was given that early yellow card. If you watched the Leeds / Villa game the next day, Koch committed a similar foul well into the game but was not booked. Later in the match he got what should have been his second yellow. No consistency in the application of the laws by the referees has always been an issue but seems to be getting worse. I suggest you seek better company. Living near Brighton then admitting to having not 1, not 2, but 3 Chelsea mates.....well, you worry me sometimes. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.
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mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 05 Oct 22 11.42am

Originally posted by NEILLO

I was out with 3 Chelsea supporting mates on Monday night.

They all thought that it should have been a red card.

In this case, I don't think the punishment fit the crime. However the rule book allows otherwise.

I suggest you seek better company.

Living near Brighton then admitting to having not 1, not 2, but 3 Chelsea mates.....well, you worry me sometimes.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 05 Oct 22 11.47am
Originally posted by mezzer I suggest you seek better company. Living near Brighton then admitting to having not 1, not 2, but 3 Chelsea mates.....well, you worry me sometimes. Only sometimes ?! Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 05 Oct 22 11.47am

Originally posted by mezzer

I suggest you seek better company.

Living near Brighton then admitting to having not 1, not 2, but 3 Chelsea mates.....well, you worry me sometimes.

Only sometimes ?!

Old, Ungifted and White

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