Italy v Eng

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Goal Machine The Cronx 24 Sep 22 9.46pm
International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%. As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate. The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate.
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Goal Machine

The Cronx 24 Sep 22 9.46pm

International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%.

As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch

In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate.

The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate.

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Badger11 Beckenham 24 Sep 22 10.00pm
Originally posted by Goal Machine International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%. As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate. The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate. That's no way to talk about our next manager One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 24 Sep 22 10.00pm

Originally posted by Goal Machine

As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch

In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate.

That's no way to talk about our next manager

One more point

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YT Oxford 24 Sep 22 10.42pm
Originally posted by Goal Machine International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%. As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate. The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate. Why? Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 24 Sep 22 10.42pm

Originally posted by Goal Machine

As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch

The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate.

Why?

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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becky over the moon 25 Sep 22 9.22am
Originally posted by Goal Machine International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%. As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate. The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate. Why does Neil Warnock come to mind.....? Well, before he retires for the 16th time that is A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 25 Sep 22 9.22am

Originally posted by Goal Machine

As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch

The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate.

Why does Neil Warnock come to mind.....? Well, before he retires for the 16th time that is

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Jacey 25 Sep 22 9.24am
Southgate is hopelessly out of his depth as England Manager and would be better suited joining the Labour Party with boring,dreary Starmer and his bunch of no hopers sitting well with his style.
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Jacey

25 Sep 22 9.24am

Southgate is hopelessly out of his depth as England Manager and would be better suited joining the Labour Party with boring,dreary Starmer and his bunch of no hopers sitting well with his style.

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monkey Sittingbourne,but made in Bromley 25 Sep 22 9.58am
One things for sure, when PV eventually gets lured away and we end up with Southgate as manager, the meltdown will be entertaining
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monkey

Sittingbourne,but made in Bromley 25 Sep 22 9.58am

One things for sure, when PV eventually gets lured away and we end up with Southgate as manager, the meltdown will be entertaining

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Dubai Eagle 25 Sep 22 10.44am
For me taking the WC & awarding it to a country in the ME with the known Summer temperatures & then (seemingly only then realising that its going to be too hot, as though this had only just occurred to them) they began the process of doing everything they can to shoe horn it into the Winter schedule - Talk about a line in the sand having been crossed - there is no going back now- FIFA have shown the world that they can do anything they like & pretty much everyone else is powerless to stop them. From a personal perspective -If at the outset they said to the world - guys we want to have the tournament in the ME, we will have to shuffle things around but this is what we want to do - Then all of the countries in the ME could have bid & then the tournament could have been staged with some credibility instead of this underhand manner - I would have been very happy to have seen a joint ME staged tournament, several games in Qatar, several in UAE, several in Oman, Bahrain etc etc etc - That to me would have been a real showpiece worthy of the name WC & the entire ME & FIFA could have come out of it with some distinction- It would have set the stage for them to realistically consider other venues going forwards - instead of this.... Originally posted by Goal Machine International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%. As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate. The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate.
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Dubai Eagle

25 Sep 22 10.44am

For me taking the WC & awarding it to a country in the ME with the known Summer temperatures & then (seemingly only then realising that its going to be too hot, as though this had only just occurred to them) they began the process of doing everything they can to shoe horn it into the Winter schedule -

Talk about a line in the sand having been crossed - there is no going back now- FIFA have shown the world that they can do anything they like & pretty much everyone else is powerless to stop them.

From a personal perspective -If at the outset they said to the world - guys we want to have the tournament in the ME, we will have to shuffle things around but this is what we want to do -
Then all of the countries in the ME could have bid & then the tournament could have been staged with some credibility instead of this underhand manner - I would have been very happy to have seen a joint ME staged tournament, several games in Qatar, several in UAE, several in Oman, Bahrain etc etc etc - That to me would have been a real showpiece worthy of the name WC & the entire ME & FIFA could have come out of it with some distinction-

It would have set the stage for them to realistically consider other venues going forwards - instead of this....

Originally posted by Goal Machine

As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch

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Painter Croydon 25 Sep 22 10.59am
Originally posted by Goal Machine International football is dead… too many games, World Cups in winter, corrupt FIFA. 24 teams in the Euros and proposed 54 in future World Cups doesn’t work due to the imbalance of tournament football, plus too many crap teams clogging up the competition. Nations League - what is this? No idea who’s even in our group. Internationals need to be reduced by 50%. As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch In terms of replacing Southgate, the issue is my first sentence. No decent manager would step away from the Premier League to manage internationally, in the same way no Premier League team would touch Southgate. The best manager we could hope for is someone with a good track record at the highest level, nearing the end of their career, and preferably English. Unfortunately I cannot think of a single candidate. Hardly a golden era of players, overpaid and overrated yes. The failure of an England manager is not exclusive to Southgate. Players just play too many games and see playing for England as a break and an opportunity to get a better contract at club level.
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Painter

Croydon 25 Sep 22 10.59am

Originally posted by Goal Machine

As for England, Southgate has failed to deliver a trophy with a golden era of players. The current form is a clue as to what dross we’ll see in the World Cup, that’s if anyone bothers to watch

Hardly a golden era of players, overpaid and overrated yes. The failure of an England manager is not exclusive to Southgate. Players just play too many games and see playing for England as a break and an opportunity to get a better contract at club level.

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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 25 Sep 22 12.23pm
Originally posted by Painter Hardly a golden era of players, overpaid and overrated yes. The failure of an England manager is not exclusive to Southgate. Players just play too many games and see playing for England as a break and an opportunity to get a better contract at club level. Yes, it is an inconvenience for them, just don't get injured, ringing in their ears from the clubs, we pay your wages, don't forget. “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 25 Sep 22 12.23pm

Originally posted by Painter

Yes, it is an inconvenience for them, just don't get injured, ringing in their ears from the clubs, we pay your wages, don't forget.

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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Pierre Purley 25 Sep 22 4.10pm
It's also interesting to watch the contrasting performances of players in matches between the Welsh, Scottish, Irish and English teams. Both Wales and Scotland both played very well this week against difficult opposition. Wales losing to Belgium and Scotland winning against Ukraine. The other home nations do not have such a large pool of players to pick from however they play with far more passion and desire for there countries when on international duty. Had Wales or Scotland played Italy, Italy wouldn't have won that match on Friday night! England's overall performance was pretty pathetic. In an match we had to win to avoid being relegated! Not entirely the players fault when the manager is opting to select players who are not playing regularly, not bang in form and are then put to play in strange positions they are not used to? Also after 45 mins it wasn't working so where was plan B? What did GS have on the bench to change/shake it all up, put the Italians on the back foot? Nothing! If we go to the World Cup with this mentality, attitude and game set up then we won't be there very long. Even Iran on Nov 21st will fancy their chances in the first game!!!
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Pierre

Purley 25 Sep 22 4.10pm

It's also interesting to watch the contrasting performances of players in matches between the Welsh, Scottish, Irish and English teams. Both Wales and Scotland both played very well this week against difficult opposition. Wales losing to Belgium and Scotland winning against Ukraine.
The other home nations do not have such a large pool of players to pick from however they play with far more passion and desire for there countries when on international duty.
Had Wales or Scotland played Italy, Italy wouldn't have won that match on Friday night!
England's overall performance was pretty pathetic. In an match we had to win to avoid being relegated!
Not entirely the players fault when the manager is opting to select players who are not playing regularly, not bang in form and are then put to play in strange positions they are not used to?
Also after 45 mins it wasn't working so where was plan B?
What did GS have on the bench to change/shake it all up, put the Italians on the back foot? Nothing!
If we go to the World Cup with this mentality, attitude and game set up then we won't be there very long. Even Iran on Nov 21st will fancy their chances in the first game!!!

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silvertop Portishead 26 Sep 22 10.00am
Originally posted by Jacey Southgate is hopelessly out of his depth as England Manager and would be better suited joining the Labour Party with boring,dreary Starmer and his bunch of no hopers sitting well with his style. He doesn't manage, his huge coaching team does. He is in charge of political overview. The comment above about international football being too much is correct. It needs to be pared down. However, I have the following to say about the recent form. I make no apology about this being hopelessly optimistic guesswork. I think I just want it to be true. We have spent over a decade working towards the next world cup that is now only 50 days away. I think we have looked at the Germans and how they have successfully focused on one summer comp every 2 years and not spread their resources (like our athletes focusing on the Olympics and using "lesser" tournaments as preparation). Thus, we got to the semis and then the final of the last 2 "real" tournaments, as evidence that we were on that route. Recent games may show we have fallen off again and we are bracing ourselves for a rough tournament. However, is that accurate? The form we cant argue with. But how much of that was us, not them? This pointless nation's nonsense is not the world cup. It is a recent fiction conjured up so someone somewhere can cash in. It has no status on the world stage. It is, thus, a really good lab for the management to carry out last minute adjustments with little real fear of consequence if it goes wrong. We are up against very good opposition coupled with what could be a direction not to go 100% and risk injury, fatigue and the player's clubs making life difficult . These are effectively friendlies, only against better teams who appear to care more. If the opening games in Qatar are as bad as Friday (and, I am assuming, tonight) then you can chuck my rose tinted waffle out with the swill. However, if we are of the level necessary to reach the final stages, then the ploy has worked a treat and we will quickly forget this recent run.
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silvertop

Portishead 26 Sep 22 10.00am

Originally posted by Jacey

Southgate is hopelessly out of his depth as England Manager and would be better suited joining the Labour Party with boring,dreary Starmer and his bunch of no hopers sitting well with his style.

He doesn't manage, his huge coaching team does. He is in charge of political overview.

The comment above about international football being too much is correct. It needs to be pared down. However, I have the following to say about the recent form. I make no apology about this being hopelessly optimistic guesswork. I think I just want it to be true.

We have spent over a decade working towards the next world cup that is now only 50 days away. I think we have looked at the Germans and how they have successfully focused on one summer comp every 2 years and not spread their resources (like our athletes focusing on the Olympics and using "lesser" tournaments as preparation). Thus, we got to the semis and then the final of the last 2 "real" tournaments, as evidence that we were on that route.

Recent games may show we have fallen off again and we are bracing ourselves for a rough tournament. However, is that accurate? The form we cant argue with. But how much of that was us, not them? This pointless nation's nonsense is not the world cup. It is a recent fiction conjured up so someone somewhere can cash in. It has no status on the world stage.

It is, thus, a really good lab for the management to carry out last minute adjustments with little real fear of consequence if it goes wrong. We are up against very good opposition coupled with what could be a direction not to go 100% and risk injury, fatigue and the player's clubs making life difficult . These are effectively friendlies, only against better teams who appear to care more.

If the opening games in Qatar are as bad as Friday (and, I am assuming, tonight) then you can chuck my rose tinted waffle out with the swill. However, if we are of the level necessary to reach the final stages, then the ploy has worked a treat and we will quickly forget this recent run.

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CrazyBadger Ware 26 Sep 22 10.48am
Just catching up with this, and (thankfully) missed the game on friday - but can't pass up the Opportunity to rant on this England side haha. The majority of the comments on this thread doesn't surprise me. The problem is that when he come on the scene from the u23s he brought with him a lot of youth and a new hope that he could mould this set of players into a good team. The first WC was further 'proof' that change was happening. However, any real analysis showed that the same issues were there.. but it was a team of youth and promise so we stuck with him. The Euros came around, and I actually thought that we had improved a little. His plan 'A' for each seemed sound, and won all games based on that - granted he needed some individuals to pull him through, Stirling was the saviour this time round, but credit to GS he beat every opposition that was put in front of him comfortably. Problem was we still hadn't faced anyone of real quality. Even Germany were a poor team in that tournament. We went into the final probably favourites, and with a lot of hope and expectation - and for the first half, with Plan A working again, things were looking good. But then the second half happened. Italy threw on a load of fresh legs and for the first time GS had to act - everybody knew it - Italy were pressing harder and harder all the time we were tiring. He did nothing, save remove our best player on the night (Rice). It was woefully incompetent. The less said about ET and Pens the better. Since then the wheels have fallen off. We've lost all positivity in our game. At times in those 2 tournaments we looked exciting and dangerous - still with very little end product - but progress was there. The thing is that we still needed individuals to win us games. We've never had a complete team, always glaring holes in our squad. At the moment we have no Strikers bar Kane. Midfield actually looks decent, and our defence is weaker that an anaemic vegan. Talk of a Golden era of players is trash; Very few of our players are of sufficient international quality (and I will still append that with a 'Yet') Guehi is a prime example. Great as he is for us, he's nowhere near international level, but still he's the next best option after Maguire, Trippier, and a the rapidly slowing Walker, but still players like him, Saka and Foden are tipped as the next england saviours. We've lost all confidence and those players who we relied on to win us games aren't anymore (and not even gonna happen against the better teams). We've still failed to beat anyone of any quality under his management. So what's the solution? We can't Replace him this close to a World Cup. So let him add to the Qatar fiasco. But when he fails, he needs to go. The only thing we can do is to change manager, someone who has a different philosophy, someone attacking, who hopefully Can find 11 players who can be effective together. If I had to choose right now, it'd be between Potter, Howe and Franck - at least they have the philosophy we're looking for. Potter and Howe probably won't leave their clubs at the moment. but Franck? "It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"
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CrazyBadger

Ware 26 Sep 22 10.48am

Just catching up with this, and (thankfully) missed the game on friday - but can't pass up the Opportunity to rant on this England side haha.

The majority of the comments on this thread doesn't surprise me.
The problem is that when he come on the scene from the u23s he brought with him a lot of youth and a new hope that he could mould this set of players into a good team. The first WC was further 'proof' that change was happening. However, any real analysis showed that the same issues were there.. but it was a team of youth and promise so we stuck with him.

The Euros came around, and I actually thought that we had improved a little. His plan 'A' for each seemed sound, and won all games based on that - granted he needed some individuals to pull him through, Stirling was the saviour this time round, but credit to GS he beat every opposition that was put in front of him comfortably.
Problem was we still hadn't faced anyone of real quality. Even Germany were a poor team in that tournament.

We went into the final probably favourites, and with a lot of hope and expectation - and for the first half, with Plan A working again, things were looking good. But then the second half happened. Italy threw on a load of fresh legs and for the first time GS had to act - everybody knew it - Italy were pressing harder and harder all the time we were tiring. He did nothing, save remove our best player on the night (Rice). It was woefully incompetent. The less said about ET and Pens the better.

Since then the wheels have fallen off. We've lost all positivity in our game. At times in those 2 tournaments we looked exciting and dangerous - still with very little end product - but progress was there.
The thing is that we still needed individuals to win us games. We've never had a complete team, always glaring holes in our squad. At the moment we have no Strikers bar Kane. Midfield actually looks decent, and our defence is weaker that an anaemic vegan. Talk of a Golden era of players is trash; Very few of our players are of sufficient international quality (and I will still append that with a 'Yet') Guehi is a prime example. Great as he is for us, he's nowhere near international level, but still he's the next best option after Maguire, Trippier, and a the rapidly slowing Walker, but still players like him, Saka and Foden are tipped as the next england saviours.

We've lost all confidence and those players who we relied on to win us games aren't anymore (and not even gonna happen against the better teams). We've still failed to beat anyone of any quality under his management.

So what's the solution? We can't Replace him this close to a World Cup. So let him add to the Qatar fiasco. But when he fails, he needs to go.
The only thing we can do is to change manager, someone who has a different philosophy, someone attacking, who hopefully Can find 11 players who can be effective together. If I had to choose right now, it'd be between Potter, Howe and Franck - at least they have the philosophy we're looking for.
Potter and Howe probably won't leave their clubs at the moment. but Franck?

"It was a Team effort, I guess it took all players working together to lose this one"

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