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Andy0629 Warlingham 29 Nov 21 10.18am | |
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Guaita Edouard Benteke or Zaha We need legs in the middle of the park and in the fullback positions as Leeds will out run us, wing backs gives us the ability to push them further into their half.
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babylonjohn St Leonards-on-Sea 29 Nov 21 10.31am | |
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Originally posted by Painter
Kouyate crossed the ball for the goal against Villa, something Olise couldn’t do all game. Actually its 86 premier goals. Villa 42 goals in 89 appearances, Liverpool 9 in 29, Palace 35 in 150.
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Goal Machine The Cronx 29 Nov 21 10.49am | |
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Would like to see Schlupp start. Just think he brings something different to the team - powerful and direct. I'm also in the camp of Luka not being good enough anymore and that perhaps Olise is not ready for a start yet. More effective as a sub currently. I'd go with: -------------Guaita-------------- If Eze isn't quite match fit, I'd start with Ayew.
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OneWayTicketToMars Selsdon 29 Nov 21 11.40am | |
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This: We will make one change Ayew for Olise. Lets go on another unbeaten run COYP
Record crowd 51,482 - The Whitehorse was rocking - Second Div Champs 1978 - 79 ... 'wot a night ! |
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Elwissthebest Marlborough 29 Nov 21 12.19pm | |
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Guaita in goal, of course. Sorry! Originally posted by KevW
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MrRobbo Chaldon 29 Nov 21 12.21pm | |
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I really hope we see something different centrally. If we want to play how we have been of late we cannot have a CM with Luka and CK. Neither are progressive enough. Surely its time to see what Hughes has to offer? Olise might not be ready to start every game. The boy is unstoppable on the counter when he has space to run into. But might not quite know how to unpick defences that sit in. Benteke is a bit of a conundrum for me. I think he is hard to drop as he is scoring, but his lack of movement causes us issues.
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sydtheeagle England 29 Nov 21 12.49pm | |
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Originally posted by MrRobbo
I really hope we see something different centrally. If we want to play how we have been of late we cannot have a CM with Luka and CK. Neither are progressive enough. Surely its time to see what Hughes has to offer? Olise might not be ready to start every game. The boy is unstoppable on the counter when he has space to run into. But might not quite know how to unpick defences that sit in. Benteke is a bit of a conundrum for me. I think he is hard to drop as he is scoring, but his lack of movement causes us issues. Agree with a lot of this. The problem with playing LM and CK is that it makes it very easy for teams to defend against us. They can cede possession and let us have the ball 70% of the time knowing that we're not a threat because we have no one in the middle of the park except Gallagher who can unlock them and they can pretty much assign two men to worry about him because there's no other threat. Yes, I think it's high time we saw what Hughes has to offer but even more, I think it's time we saw what Olise has to offer in his preferred (and correct) position in central midfield. Whether starting or off the bench, I'd like to see both given chances in that role over the next few games. You raised another point that I think is important about Olise but it applies more generally: "The boy is unstoppable on the counter when he has space to run into." I noticed both at Burnley and on Saturday, and it's a small detail, but our playing of the simple pass is, more often than not, absolutely f***ing horrible. Even though in both games we've had an enormous amount of possession (which far too often we've used to crab the ball sideways across the back four rather than forwards into attack), our crab-passing is way below standard. Far too often we play the ball either to someone's feet or, worse, slightly behind them so they're either forced to take the ball facing our own goal or to control it, turn and then having to look up to see who's available. It's a mystery to me why these simple passes can't be played into space ahead of the player so he can run onto the ball and is moving in the right direction when gets it. There's no point playing possession football if you don't know what to do with the ball. It's a small but important detail. I don't have a conundrum about Benteke. As with Ayew, I think he gets an unreasonable amount of stick here. He's playing well (by his own recent standards), scoring goals, and seems to have his confidence back. The biggest problem I have him with at the moment is at the other end of the pitch; his defending of set-pieces is absolutely f***ing terrible. He doesn't seem to realise that marking doesn't involve just standing next to someone when the ball is played; you actually have to track them and defend the ball when it comes in. More importantly, I also think we still don't use Benteke properly. Even if he's a bit of a statue, in the air he's an extremely dangerous one and we seem not make it a priority to play whipped crosses into the six yard box when we've got one of the best headers of the ball in the PL waiting there. That mystifies me. If I see another floaty cross, I think I'm going to self-immolate and while I'm on the subject, what's with the short-corners? I've never understood why you'd f*** around with "clever" movement and short passes before you cross the ball (yes, I know the idea is to pull defenders out of position but the risk of doing so is that you never get the cross in at all) when you have a Benteke in the middle who's capable of getting onto anything. When we have a corner, just fizz the bloody ball towards the penalty spot and Benteke will get onto his fair share. And if he doesn't, at least it'll create some danger in the box. I'd rather lose the ball there than out by the corner flag where there's no chance of scoring.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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Painter Croydon 29 Nov 21 1.40pm | |
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Originally posted by sydtheeagle
Agree with a lot of this. The problem with playing LM and CK is that it makes it very easy for teams to defend against us. They can cede possession and let us have the ball 70% of the time knowing that we're not a threat because we have no one in the middle of the park except Gallagher who can unlock them and they can pretty much assign two men to worry about him because there's no other threat. Yes, I think it's high time we saw what Hughes has to offer but even more, I think it's time we saw what Olise has to offer in his preferred (and correct) position in central midfield. Whether starting or off the bench, I'd like to see both given chances in that role over the next few games. You raised another point that I think is important about Olise but it applies more generally: "The boy is unstoppable on the counter when he has space to run into." I noticed both at Burnley and on Saturday, and it's a small detail, but our playing of the simple pass is, more often than not, absolutely f***ing horrible. Even though in both games we've had an enormous amount of possession (which far too often we've used to crab the ball sideways across the back four rather than forwards into attack), our crab-passing is way below standard. Far too often we play the ball either to someone's feet or, worse, slightly behind them so they're either forced to take the ball facing our own goal or to control it, turn and then having to look up to see who's available. It's a mystery to me why these simple passes can't be played into space ahead of the player so he can run onto the ball and is moving in the right direction when gets it. There's no point playing possession football if you don't know what to do with the ball. It's a small but important detail. I don't have a conundrum about Benteke. As with Ayew, I think he gets an unreasonable amount of stick here. He's playing well (by his own recent standards), scoring goals, and seems to have his confidence back. The biggest problem I have him with at the moment is at the other end of the pitch; his defending of set-pieces is absolutely f***ing terrible. He doesn't seem to realise that marking doesn't involve just standing next to someone when the ball is played; you actually have to track them and defend the ball when it comes in. More importantly, I also think we still don't use Benteke properly. Even if he's a bit of a statue, in the air he's an extremely dangerous one and we seem not make it a priority to play whipped crosses into the six yard box when we've got one of the best headers of the ball in the PL waiting there. That mystifies me. If I see another floaty cross, I think I'm going to self-immolate and while I'm on the subject, what's with the short-corners? I've never understood why you'd f*** around with "clever" movement and short passes before you cross the ball (yes, I know the idea is to pull defenders out of position but the risk of doing so is that you never get the cross in at all) when you have a Benteke in the middle who's capable of getting onto anything. When we have a corner, just fizz the bloody ball towards the penalty spot and Benteke will get onto his fair share. And if he doesn't, at least it'll create some danger in the box. I'd rather lose the ball there than out by the corner flag where there's no chance of scoring. A considered post. I think Benteke is told to defend an area rather than man mark someone, generally around the near post.
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The Dolphin 29 Nov 21 1.41pm | |
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Guaita Ward Ayew Zaha Edited by The Dolphin (29 Nov 2021 1.41pm)
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MrRobbo Chaldon 29 Nov 21 2.01pm | |
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Originally posted by sydtheeagle
Agree with a lot of this. The problem with playing LM and CK is that it makes it very easy for teams to defend against us. They can cede possession and let us have the ball 70% of the time knowing that we're not a threat because we have no one in the middle of the park except Gallagher who can unlock them and they can pretty much assign two men to worry about him because there's no other threat. Yes, I think it's high time we saw what Hughes has to offer but even more, I think it's time we saw what Olise has to offer in his preferred (and correct) position in central midfield. Whether starting or off the bench, I'd like to see both given chances in that role over the next few games. You raised another point that I think is important about Olise but it applies more generally: "The boy is unstoppable on the counter when he has space to run into." I noticed both at Burnley and on Saturday, and it's a small detail, but our playing of the simple pass is, more often than not, absolutely f***ing horrible. Even though in both games we've had an enormous amount of possession (which far too often we've used to crab the ball sideways across the back four rather than forwards into attack), our crab-passing is way below standard. Far too often we play the ball either to someone's feet or, worse, slightly behind them so they're either forced to take the ball facing our own goal or to control it, turn and then having to look up to see who's available. It's a mystery to me why these simple passes can't be played into space ahead of the player so he can run onto the ball and is moving in the right direction when gets it. There's no point playing possession football if you don't know what to do with the ball. It's a small but important detail. I don't have a conundrum about Benteke. As with Ayew, I think he gets an unreasonable amount of stick here. He's playing well (by his own recent standards), scoring goals, and seems to have his confidence back. The biggest problem I have him with at the moment is at the other end of the pitch; his defending of set-pieces is absolutely f***ing terrible. He doesn't seem to realise that marking doesn't involve just standing next to someone when the ball is played; you actually have to track them and defend the ball when it comes in. More importantly, I also think we still don't use Benteke properly. Even if he's a bit of a statue, in the air he's an extremely dangerous one and we seem not make it a priority to play whipped crosses into the six yard box when we've got one of the best headers of the ball in the PL waiting there. That mystifies me. If I see another floaty cross, I think I'm going to self-immolate and while I'm on the subject, what's with the short-corners? I've never understood why you'd f*** around with "clever" movement and short passes before you cross the ball (yes, I know the idea is to pull defenders out of position but the risk of doing so is that you never get the cross in at all) when you have a Benteke in the middle who's capable of getting onto anything. When we have a corner, just fizz the bloody ball towards the penalty spot and Benteke will get onto his fair share. And if he doesn't, at least it'll create some danger in the box. I'd rather lose the ball there than out by the corner flag where there's no chance of scoring. I'd agree on the short passing being sloppy. It sounds trivial but it puts the receiver on the back foot. My guess is that as Benteke is arguably the best in the air, we give him a free role and tell him to just attack the ball. I'm fine with that in the first phase, but he then needs to work harder after that initial cross. The corner/set piece conundrum is getting more ridiculous by the week. My recollection is that broadly they are all individual errors but so many are basic. And its now spreading to players like Tompkins coming in for his first game. How such an experience defender misreads the flight of the ball that badly is baffling.
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sydtheeagle England 29 Nov 21 2.36pm | |
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Originally posted by MrRobbo
My guess is that as Benteke is arguably the best in the air, we give him a free role and tell him to just attack the ball. I'm fine with that in the first phase, but he then needs to work harder after that initial cross. Agreed. However, for that to be a useful approach, the quality of our crossing has to improve considerably. The "slow, high ball wafted into the penalty area" is completely ineffective and we do it far too often. In my view, our crosses have to a). come in much harder and faster (whipped in), and b). they need to arrive far earlier. All too often we have Wilf, Olise, Ward, or Mitchell get to the byline and then, rather than whipping a cross in for Benteke to attacke, they play it back to the next man to put in the cross by which time the defense has had those vital extra thirty seconds to organise themselves and the advantage of momentum has been lost. We need to create more chances, rather than always looking for the perfect pass. Originally posted by MrRobbo
The corner/set piece conundrum is getting more ridiculous by the week. My recollection is that broadly they are all individual errors but so many are basic. And its now spreading to players like Tompkins coming in for his first game. How such an experience defender misreads the flight of the ball that badly is baffling. Not excusing Tomkins but I suspect the wind on the pitch was far more difficult to deal with than those of us in the stands realised. That said, what I thought gave the lack of organisation away was there was a play towards the end of the first half on Saturday, from memory, where Villa played a ball to the far post and literally everyone stood there watching it, Guita, Tomkins, Ward, and Guehi all waiting for each other to make a move until Ward, I think it was, booted it out for a corner more out of desperation than judgment. It was a bit reminiscent of Burnley's second goal the week before where everyone seemed rooted and Woods (I think it was) pretty much headed in unchallenged. Had their been a Villa player in the neighbourhood on Saturday, that would been 2-0 but thankfully, there wasn't. I think one problem is that we appear to be marking zonally rather than man-to-man and it's simply not working for two reasons. First, players appear not to know their zones (I mean, you have to assume someone is covering a zone on the edge of a six yard box so if no one is there, there has to be a breakdown somewhere) and second, if you're going to play zonally, given that by definition it means opposing players will need to be handed off to another marker when they move between zones, you really need to have players who really know each other and have been playing that way for a long time to ensure everyone is picked up which is not the case with us at present. A third issue is that a zonal system as opposed to man-to-man marking also requires a really vocal goalkeeper to be effective, as the keeper will really need to "quarterback" the zones and shout to make sure everyone is aware of what's happening. And for all his pluses, Guiata is NOT that sort of keeper.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 29 Nov 21 4.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Painter
Kouyate crossed the ball for the goal against Villa, something Olise couldn’t do all game. He has scored 37 goals in 160 matches for us, not exactly a glut is it, and its only cost us 65m, he isn't a goal scorer, Edouard might be if he gets the CF position. out him, get some money back and buy another CF
“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn |
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