Tim Martin

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Tim Martin

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Jun 21 12.42pm
Originally posted by DanH Low wages are a combination of a number of things. Labour supply being just one of them. The demand for cheap goods in an economy where consumption is high is far greater. We have become accustomed to paying extremely cheap prices for goods (especially agricultural goods) which means that these have to be produced extremely cheaply. This means low wages and low standards. Rising inequality also suggests that company profits are not filtering their way through to rising wages, rather being distributed as dividends to shareholders/directors. A lot of businesses will seek to pay the minimum that the market (or NMW legislation) will allow to maximise profit margins rather than pass these on to staff. True but if recruitment becomes a problem due to low wages then they will have to cut their dividends in order to fund a pay rise if they want the company to be successful. I don't disagree with your assessment but Andrew Carnegie who was notorious for paying slave wages complained bitterly that his new immigrant workers were quick to realise that they were being under paid. In short if companies can get away with it they will, look at Uber. Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 12.43pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Jun 21 12.42pm

Originally posted by DanH

Low wages are a combination of a number of things. Labour supply being just one of them. The demand for cheap goods in an economy where consumption is high is far greater. We have become accustomed to paying extremely cheap prices for goods (especially agricultural goods) which means that these have to be produced extremely cheaply. This means low wages and low standards.

Rising inequality also suggests that company profits are not filtering their way through to rising wages, rather being distributed as dividends to shareholders/directors. A lot of businesses will seek to pay the minimum that the market (or NMW legislation) will allow to maximise profit margins rather than pass these on to staff.

True but if recruitment becomes a problem due to low wages then they will have to cut their dividends in order to fund a pay rise if they want the company to be successful.

I don't disagree with your assessment but Andrew Carnegie who was notorious for paying slave wages complained bitterly that his new immigrant workers were quick to realise that they were being under paid.

In short if companies can get away with it they will, look at Uber.

Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 12.43pm)

One more point

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 12.47pm
Originally posted by Spiderman FWIW my son and his girlfriend tried desperately to get farm work last year, when, allegedly there was a shortage. Most didn’t reply to them, whilst others insisted they live on site, in caravans, and would have accommodation costs deducted at source. Why? Maybe this is why we are still getting plane loads of workers from EU and Ukraine coming over, as even these conditions are better than they have at home? I remember mate you talking about it last year, thing is, our great british farmers, the best in the world we are constantly told, have to be held to account then, why aren"t they employing local home born people to work? We are told to buy british all the time, and the british symbol, but if our great british farmers aren"t employing british people, maybe we should be holding them to account, and buying anything but british?
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 12.47pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

FWIW my son and his girlfriend tried desperately to get farm work last year, when, allegedly there was a shortage. Most didn’t reply to them, whilst others insisted they live on site, in caravans, and would have accommodation costs deducted at source. Why?
Maybe this is why we are still getting plane loads of workers from EU and Ukraine coming over, as even these conditions are better than they have at home?

I remember mate you talking about it last year, thing is, our great british farmers, the best in the world we are constantly told, have to be held to account then, why aren"t they employing local home born people to work? We are told to buy british all the time, and the british symbol, but if our great british farmers aren"t employing british people, maybe we should be holding them to account, and buying anything but british?

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 12.50pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I think the media reporting on the shortages in hospitably sector is quite disgraceful. The last unemployment figures I saw were 4.8% that is a lot. In the next month we have thousands of school leavers about to start looking for work and 2m people still on furlough until September. The media is still buying into we need to import cheap foreign labour to help our companies who pay Mcjob wages, No we bloody well don't. Why is the media not mentioning any of this? It is possible that by October unemployment will be rising not falling although I hope not. Tim Martin maybe a Brexiteer but I can't stand him or his pubs he and Starbucks et al should be told loud and clear start recruiting locally and pay better wages. Glad you didn"t mention lidl Badger, although a different business, German owned, and pays its staff over £10 an hour, the best in the business, fair play!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 12.50pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I think the media reporting on the shortages in hospitably sector is quite disgraceful.

The last unemployment figures I saw were 4.8% that is a lot. In the next month we have thousands of school leavers about to start looking for work and 2m people still on furlough until September.

The media is still buying into we need to import cheap foreign labour to help our companies who pay Mcjob wages, No we bloody well don't.

Why is the media not mentioning any of this? It is possible that by October unemployment will be rising not falling although I hope not.

Tim Martin maybe a Brexiteer but I can't stand him or his pubs he and Starbucks et al should be told loud and clear start recruiting locally and pay better wages.

Glad you didn"t mention lidl Badger, although a different business, German owned, and pays its staff over £10 an hour, the best in the business, fair play!

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Jun 21 12.53pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Glad you didn"t mention lidl Badger, although a different business, German owned, and pays its staff over £10 an hour, the best in the business, fair play! good for them. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Jun 21 12.53pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Glad you didn"t mention lidl Badger, although a different business, German owned, and pays its staff over £10 an hour, the best in the business, fair play!

good for them.

One more point

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 12.54pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Pre 2004 there were no Eastern European workers and 30% more pubs yet they were all staffed. It’s a fallacy that the country require an endless stream of cheap labour. Best tell Tim Tom, he can"t get any local british people to work the lunch shift and might have to close some pubs down, and he is a true patriot, i"m sure he would employ a brit above a johnny foreigner any day, but he"s crying out for rules to be relaxed to get the europeans over!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 12.54pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Pre 2004 there were no Eastern European workers and 30% more pubs yet they were all staffed.

It’s a fallacy that the country require an endless stream of cheap labour.

Best tell Tim Tom, he can"t get any local british people to work the lunch shift and might have to close some pubs down, and he is a true patriot, i"m sure he would employ a brit above a johnny foreigner any day, but he"s crying out for rules to be relaxed to get the europeans over!

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 1.12pm
Originally posted by DanH Low wages are a combination of a number of things. Labour supply being just one of them. The demand for cheap goods in an economy where consumption is high is far greater. We have become accustomed to paying extremely cheap prices for goods (especially agricultural goods) which means that these have to be produced extremely cheaply. This means low wages and low standards. Rising inequality also suggests that company profits are not filtering their way through to rising wages, rather being distributed as dividends to shareholders/directors. A lot of businesses will seek to pay the minimum that the market (or NMW legislation) will allow to maximise profit margins rather than pass these on to staff. What we need is a body to protect workers rights, make sure they aren"t exploited and get a fair deal,where the workers stick together and gain strength in unity- we could call it a union or something. Oh . hold on, the british workers dont like bodies that protect their interests, the majority anyway, and the biggest anti workers rights people seem to be the white working classes, basildon man perhaps? Oh well, the race to the bottom continues, these eton boys will think of something, they wouldn"t let the worker bees at the bottom down, surely?
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 1.12pm

Originally posted by DanH

Rising inequality also suggests that company profits are not filtering their way through to rising wages, rather being distributed as dividends to shareholders/directors. A lot of businesses will seek to pay the minimum that the market (or NMW legislation) will allow to maximise profit margins rather than pass these on to staff.

What we need is a body to protect workers rights, make sure they aren"t exploited and get a fair deal,where the workers stick together and gain strength in unity- we could call it a union or something. Oh . hold on, the british workers dont like bodies that protect their interests, the majority anyway, and the biggest anti workers rights people seem to be the white working classes, basildon man perhaps? Oh well, the race to the bottom continues, these eton boys will think of something, they wouldn"t let the worker bees at the bottom down, surely?

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steeleye20 Croydon 04 Jun 21 1.34pm
There is more water in a brexiteers argument than there is in a pint of Weatherspoon's beer. And that's saying something. Why would anybody from the EU come here anymore, now the hostile environment has been extended to our former friends.
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steeleye20

Croydon 04 Jun 21 1.34pm

There is more water in a brexiteers argument than there is in a pint of Weatherspoon's beer.

And that's saying something.

Why would anybody from the EU come here anymore, now the hostile environment has been extended to our former friends.

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 Jun 21 1.44pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 There is more water in a brexiteers argument than there is in a pint of Weatherspoon's beer. And that's saying something. Why would anybody from the EU come here anymore, now the hostile environment has been extended to our former friends. C'mon Steeleye the government said there were 3.5m EU citizens here, the Remainers said they were all fleeing back home and yet 5.5m have been granted settled status. Why would they come here? Well for many the UK is still a good place to work as there aren't any jobs back home. They can still come they just need to have some relevant job skills. By the way some of our EU neighbours are not nearly as welcoming to foreign workers as we are. they have this quaint idea that jobs should be for the locals. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 Jun 21 1.44pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

There is more water in a brexiteers argument than there is in a pint of Weatherspoon's beer.

And that's saying something.

Why would anybody from the EU come here anymore, now the hostile environment has been extended to our former friends.

C'mon Steeleye the government said there were 3.5m EU citizens here, the Remainers said they were all fleeing back home and yet 5.5m have been granted settled status.

Why would they come here? Well for many the UK is still a good place to work as there aren't any jobs back home. They can still come they just need to have some relevant job skills.

By the way some of our EU neighbours are not nearly as welcoming to foreign workers as we are. they have this quaint idea that jobs should be for the locals.

One more point

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DanH SW2 04 Jun 21 2.29pm
Originally posted by Badger11 True but if recruitment becomes a problem due to low wages then they will have to cut their dividends in order to fund a pay rise if they want the company to be successful. I don't disagree with your assessment but Andrew Carnegie who was notorious for paying slave wages complained bitterly that his new immigrant workers were quick to realise that they were being under paid. In short if companies can get away with it they will, look at Uber. Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 12.43pm) Completely agree. I'm a big believer in free markets but government intervention is required to ensure workers aren't exploited. There also seems to have been a bit of a shift in the public mood recently towards corporate behaviour when it comes to things like paying taxes, treating your employees fairly etc. etc. and a lot of businesses are having their hands forced to change their behaviour away what it would normally be. Mainly because the impact on the bottom line from the bad press/PR has more of an impact on the business rather than because it's 'the right thing to do', but still, a step in the right direction.
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DanH

SW2 04 Jun 21 2.29pm

Originally posted by Badger11

True but if recruitment becomes a problem due to low wages then they will have to cut their dividends in order to fund a pay rise if they want the company to be successful.

In short if companies can get away with it they will, look at Uber.

Edited by Badger11 (04 Jun 2021 12.43pm)

Completely agree. I'm a big believer in free markets but government intervention is required to ensure workers aren't exploited.

There also seems to have been a bit of a shift in the public mood recently towards corporate behaviour when it comes to things like paying taxes, treating your employees fairly etc. etc. and a lot of businesses are having their hands forced to change their behaviour away what it would normally be. Mainly because the impact on the bottom line from the bad press/PR has more of an impact on the business rather than because it's 'the right thing to do', but still, a step in the right direction.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 3.26pm
Originally posted by DanH Completely agree. I'm a big believer in free markets but government intervention is required to ensure workers aren't exploited. There also seems to have been a bit of a shift in the public mood recently towards corporate behaviour when it comes to things like paying taxes, treating your employees fairly etc. etc. and a lot of businesses are having their hands forced to change their behaviour away what it would normally be. Mainly because the impact on the bottom line from the bad press/PR has more of an impact on the business rather than because it's 'the right thing to do', but still, a step in the right direction. The bad press is because the pennys finally dropping, people at the bottom are absolutely potless and can only borrow to survive, the people at the top have never had it so good, and the sad fact is, lots at the bottom believe the old etonians give a fcuk about them and will one day come good, instead of fcuking owf to california to buy a vineyard ,when the crap really hits the fan!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 04 Jun 21 3.26pm

Originally posted by DanH

Completely agree. I'm a big believer in free markets but government intervention is required to ensure workers aren't exploited.

The bad press is because the pennys finally dropping, people at the bottom are absolutely potless and can only borrow to survive, the people at the top have never had it so good, and the sad fact is, lots at the bottom believe the old etonians give a fcuk about them and will one day come good, instead of fcuking owf to california to buy a vineyard ,when the crap really hits the fan!

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cryrst The garden of England 04 Jun 21 5.18pm
Originally posted by DanH Completely agree. I'm a big believer in free markets but government intervention is required to ensure workers aren't exploited. There also seems to have been a bit of a shift in the public mood recently towards corporate behaviour when it comes to things like paying taxes, treating your employees fairly etc. etc. and a lot of businesses are having their hands forced to change their behaviour away what it would normally be. Mainly because the impact on the bottom line from the bad press/PR has more of an impact on the business rather than because it's 'the right thing to do', but still, a step in the right direction. Uber drivers are all paye now and fair play to uber for stepping up to the mark. Shame LTDA can't form a cooperative to do the same for their members. Although I would imagine a bit less skimming or scooping could be done though so probably not what they want. On the flip side I do hope uber drivers don't throw their toys when at Xmas they are earning £120 a day but uber are making a grand. Can't have your cake and all that.
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cryrst

The garden of England 04 Jun 21 5.18pm

Originally posted by DanH

Completely agree. I'm a big believer in free markets but government intervention is required to ensure workers aren't exploited.

Uber drivers are all paye now and fair play to uber for stepping up to the mark. Shame LTDA can't form a cooperative to do the same for their members. Although I would imagine a bit less skimming or scooping could be done though so probably not what they want. On the flip side I do hope uber drivers don't throw their toys when at Xmas they are earning £120 a day but uber are making a grand.
Can't have your cake and all that.

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Orange1290 04 Jun 21 5.47pm
Originally posted by cryrst Uber drivers are all paye now and fair play to uber for stepping up to the mark. Shame LTDA can't form a cooperative to do the same for their members. Although I would imagine a bit less skimming or scooping could be done though so probably not what they want. On the flip side I do hope uber drivers don't throw their toys when at Xmas they are earning £120 a day but uber are making a grand. Can't have your cake and all that. So why doesn't the same rule apply to black taxi drivers as they are self employed and have been for decades? Pro China, EU & Palestine
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Orange1290

04 Jun 21 5.47pm

Originally posted by cryrst

So why doesn't the same rule apply to black taxi drivers as they are self employed and have been for decades?

Pro China, EU & Palestine

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