Billions extra for Scotland......

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Billions extra for Scotland......

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Badger11 Beckenham 03 May 21 6.47pm
Originally posted by HKOwen Please explain in simple terms how Scotland will be economically viable. I will give you a Panama /$ scenario on use of the Pound. How can Scotland produce enough tax to maintain public services? How will Scotland deal with the exodus of companies such as Natwest/RBS? How will a Scottish sell the idea of future use of Euro which is a prerequisite to EU membership? For the avoidance of doubt I would vote to get Scotland off the UK balance sheet if I was allowed Edited by HKOwen (03 May 2021 4.53pm) You would have thought that a prerequisite for independence is the SNP demonstrating to its own people how fiscally responsible they are and so can be trusted. Far from it Scotland is well in debt and the SNP election manifesto is spend spend spend. I honestly do not get why anyone would vote for them or why they haven't figured that out. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 03 May 21 6.47pm

Originally posted by HKOwen

Please explain in simple terms how Scotland will be economically viable.

I will give you a Panama /$ scenario on use of the Pound.

How can Scotland produce enough tax to maintain public services?

How will Scotland deal with the exodus of companies such as Natwest/RBS?

How will a Scottish sell the idea of future use of Euro which is a prerequisite to EU membership?

For the avoidance of doubt I would vote to get Scotland off the UK balance sheet if I was allowed

Edited by HKOwen (03 May 2021 4.53pm)

You would have thought that a prerequisite for independence is the SNP demonstrating to its own people how fiscally responsible they are and so can be trusted.

Far from it Scotland is well in debt and the SNP election manifesto is spend spend spend.

I honestly do not get why anyone would vote for them or why they haven't figured that out.

One more point

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Spiderman Horsham 03 May 21 7.06pm
Originally posted by Badger11 You would have thought that a prerequisite for independence is the SNP demonstrating to its own people how fiscally responsible they are and so can be trusted. Far from it Scotland is well in debt and the SNP election manifesto is spend spend spend. I honestly do not get why anyone would vote for them or why they haven't figured that out. Because the hatred of the English clouds many a thought
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Spiderman

Horsham 03 May 21 7.06pm

Originally posted by Badger11

You would have thought that a prerequisite for independence is the SNP demonstrating to its own people how fiscally responsible they are and so can be trusted.

Far from it Scotland is well in debt and the SNP election manifesto is spend spend spend.

I honestly do not get why anyone would vote for them or why they haven't figured that out.

Because the hatred of the English clouds many a thought

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AuntyAnne70 Tunbridge WElls 03 May 21 7.07pm
I don't quite get the point of people from England or any other country for that matter determining what is best for Scotland if they choose to have independence.
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AuntyAnne70

Tunbridge WElls 03 May 21 7.07pm

I don't quite get the point of people from England or any other country for that matter determining what is best for Scotland if they choose to have independence.

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Spiderman Horsham 03 May 21 7.10pm
Originally posted by AuntyAnne70 I don't quite get the point of people from England or any other country for that matter determining what is best for Scotland if they choose to have independence. If the choose independence that’s fine by me, but independence must mean just that. No hanging on to our shirt tails, no financial handouts
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Spiderman

Horsham 03 May 21 7.10pm

Originally posted by AuntyAnne70

I don't quite get the point of people from England or any other country for that matter determining what is best for Scotland if they choose to have independence.

If the choose independence that’s fine by me, but independence must mean just that. No hanging on to our shirt tails, no financial handouts

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becky over the moon 03 May 21 7.12pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The pound will be used until a new scottish currency is approved by the scottish parliament. Scotland will choose. But the Bank of England has already said that they cannot use the pound if they become independent, so that's a no-go A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 03 May 21 7.12pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The pound will be used until a new scottish currency is approved by the scottish parliament.

Scotland will choose.

But the Bank of England has already said that they cannot use the pound if they become independent, so that's a no-go

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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steeleye20 Croydon 03 May 21 7.16pm
Somehow I don't think Scotland is 2 trillions in debt. Scotland has a lot going for it. Huge natural resources, soon to be self-sufficient in energy (wind), low population to support. Probably to become an associate, not full member of the EU with access to the single market. With no brexit, which was forced on them against their wishes, investment should pour in. It will have to be set up well and will need financial backing for the first few years, so it will need a clean break. Looks like the battle of the union will be lost on the playing fields of Eton.
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steeleye20

Croydon 03 May 21 7.16pm

Somehow I don't think Scotland is 2 trillions in debt.

Scotland has a lot going for it.

Huge natural resources, soon to be self-sufficient in energy (wind), low population to support.

Probably to become an associate, not full member of the EU with access to the single market.

With no brexit, which was forced on them against their wishes, investment should pour in.

It will have to be set up well and will need financial backing for the first few years, so it will need a clean break.

Looks like the battle of the union will be lost on the playing fields of Eton.

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Spiderman Horsham 03 May 21 8.03pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Somehow I don't think Scotland is 2 trillions in debt. Scotland has a lot going for it. Huge natural resources, soon to be self-sufficient in energy (wind), low population to support. Probably to become an associate, not full member of the EU with access to the single market. With no brexit, which was forced on them against their wishes, investment should pour in. It will have to be set up well and will need financial backing for the first few years, so it will need a clean break. Looks like the battle of the union will be lost on the playing fields of Eton. And where will they get the financial backing for “ the first few years”?
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Spiderman

Horsham 03 May 21 8.03pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Somehow I don't think Scotland is 2 trillions in debt.

Scotland has a lot going for it.

Huge natural resources, soon to be self-sufficient in energy (wind), low population to support.

Probably to become an associate, not full member of the EU with access to the single market.

With no brexit, which was forced on them against their wishes, investment should pour in.

It will have to be set up well and will need financial backing for the first few years, so it will need a clean break.

Looks like the battle of the union will be lost on the playing fields of Eton.

And where will they get the financial backing for “ the first few years”?

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Teddy Eagle 03 May 21 10.24pm
According to the IfG report, even before the Covid pandemic Scotland ran a deficit of more than 7 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) – well over twice the level required for those hoping to join the European Union. As a result, while every person in England on average benefited from public spending worth £91 more than the taxes they paid, in Scotland the figure was £2,543.
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Teddy Eagle

03 May 21 10.24pm

According to the IfG report, even before the Covid pandemic Scotland ran a deficit of more than 7 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) – well over twice the level required for those hoping to join the European Union.
As a result, while every person in England on average benefited from public spending worth £91 more than the taxes they paid, in Scotland the figure was £2,543.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 04 May 21 12.37am
[Link] As much as it pains me to use The Guardian this is a well informed piece. As I said before, the reality is independence is not viable although I would welcome it. Steeleye, much as Sturgeon, does not address reality or facts on this subject, just goes off on an anti English / Tory ramble, very much the Sturgeon method. Originally posted by steeleye20 The pound will be used until a new scottish currency is approved by the scottish parliament. Scotland will choose. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 04 May 21 12.37am

[Link]

As much as it pains me to use The Guardian this is a well informed piece.

As I said before, the reality is independence is not viable although I would welcome it.

Steeleye, much as Sturgeon, does not address reality or facts on this subject, just goes off on an anti English / Tory ramble, very much the Sturgeon method.

Originally posted by steeleye20

The pound will be used until a new scottish currency is approved by the scottish parliament.

Scotland will choose.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 04 May 21 12.38am
pesky facts again Originally posted by Teddy Eagle According to the IfG report, even before the Covid pandemic Scotland ran a deficit of more than 7 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP) – well over twice the level required for those hoping to join the European Union. As a result, while every person in England on average benefited from public spending worth £91 more than the taxes they paid, in Scotland the figure was £2,543. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 04 May 21 12.38am

pesky facts again

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

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HKOwen Hong Kong 04 May 21 12.59am
Let's explore this. Exactly what natural resources? Wind will meet all the energy needs? Any form of EU membership is possible if the EU agree, but, worth noting the EU is against supporting breakaway nations because of other members' issues such as Catalonia. 38% of the 2016 Scottish electorate voted to leave, that's how democracy works. SNP have one plan which is to find a lender and borrow, problem is they nothing to offer as collateral and will be penalised with high interest rates even if they find a lender. Try to answer rather than go off on a diatribe of meaningless comments and divisive sound bytes. For me the battle should not take place, I would welcome a clean cut break. With your keen interest in this issue you doubtless watched the Sturgeon interviews recently, the one where she pretended to have lost the audio link to try and dodge a question was pretty funny. Of course, Sturgeon and the SNP do no not have exclusivity on wanting independence, Alba is there now At the end of the day, I want the same as you, a swift clean break for the UK from Scotland. I wonder if there is a Gaelic word for schadenfreude?....there is gàirdeachas droch-rùnach Originally posted by steeleye20 Somehow I don't think Scotland is 2 trillions in debt. Scotland has a lot going for it. Huge natural resources, soon to be self-sufficient in energy (wind), low population to support. Probably to become an associate, not full member of the EU with access to the single market. With no brexit, which was forced on them against their wishes, investment should pour in. It will have to be set up well and will need financial backing for the first few years, so it will need a clean break. Looks like the battle of the union will be lost on the playing fields of Eton. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 04 May 21 12.59am

Let's explore this.

Exactly what natural resources?

Wind will meet all the energy needs?

Any form of EU membership is possible if the EU agree, but, worth noting the EU is against supporting breakaway nations because of other members' issues such as Catalonia.

38% of the 2016 Scottish electorate voted to leave, that's how democracy works.

SNP have one plan which is to find a lender and borrow, problem is they nothing to offer as collateral and will be penalised with high interest rates even if they find a lender.

Try to answer rather than go off on a diatribe of meaningless comments and divisive sound bytes.

For me the battle should not take place, I would welcome a clean cut break.

With your keen interest in this issue you doubtless watched the Sturgeon interviews recently, the one where she pretended to have lost the audio link to try and dodge a question was pretty funny.

Of course, Sturgeon and the SNP do no not have exclusivity on wanting independence, Alba is there now

At the end of the day, I want the same as you, a swift clean break for the UK from Scotland.

I wonder if there is a Gaelic word for schadenfreude?....there is

gàirdeachas droch-rùnach

Originally posted by steeleye20

Somehow I don't think Scotland is 2 trillions in debt.

Scotland has a lot going for it.

Huge natural resources, soon to be self-sufficient in energy (wind), low population to support.

Probably to become an associate, not full member of the EU with access to the single market.

With no brexit, which was forced on them against their wishes, investment should pour in.

It will have to be set up well and will need financial backing for the first few years, so it will need a clean break.

Looks like the battle of the union will be lost on the playing fields of Eton.

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Badger11 Beckenham 04 May 21 9.01am
I can see a situation where an independent Scotland negotiates a deal with the UK to continue to use the pound for a couple of years whilst they implement their own currency and I would have no problem with that. But that would only happen with a deal. If Scotland refuses to accept their fair share of the national debt it aint going to happen. [Link] If the Scots walk away from the table without paying the bill these would be the consequences. - The UK cannot stop them using the pound however Scotland would have almost no control over their interest rates or money supply. The BOE would not give a damn about how it's decisions impact Scotland. - The money markets would not lend to Scotland or if they did would demand high rates, why would you lend to someone who refuses to pay their debts. - In the event of no deal the UK would imposes sanctions against Scotland which could be anything up to and including: - Refusing to allow Scottish good to travel through the UK. - Denying work permits and or visas to Scots. - imposing financial, cultural sanctions etc. So how could the Scots retaliate? - Evict UK military from Scotland, well they are going to do that anyway e.g. nuclear base at Faslane. More job losses for Scotland. - Impose financial sanctions against the UK sure but with the size of their economy I doubt that will hurt. - Ban people from visiting Scotland? hurts their tourist industry. - Ban goods from the UK (not very bright). - Ban export of oil and gas (not very bright). In a trade war the Scots will lose so it is ridiculous for their politicians to make decisions that will lead to conflict with the UK. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 04 May 21 9.01am

I can see a situation where an independent Scotland negotiates a deal with the UK to continue to use the pound for a couple of years whilst they implement their own currency and I would have no problem with that.

But that would only happen with a deal. If Scotland refuses to accept their fair share of the national debt it aint going to happen.

[Link]

If the Scots walk away from the table without paying the bill these would be the consequences.

- The UK cannot stop them using the pound however Scotland would have almost no control over their interest rates or money supply. The BOE would not give a damn about how it's decisions impact Scotland.

- The money markets would not lend to Scotland or if they did would demand high rates, why would you lend to someone who refuses to pay their debts.

- In the event of no deal the UK would imposes sanctions against Scotland which could be anything up to and including:

- Refusing to allow Scottish good to travel through the UK.

- Denying work permits and or visas to Scots.

- imposing financial, cultural sanctions etc.

So how could the Scots retaliate?

- Evict UK military from Scotland, well they are going to do that anyway e.g. nuclear base at Faslane. More job losses for Scotland.

- Impose financial sanctions against the UK sure but with the size of their economy I doubt that will hurt.

- Ban people from visiting Scotland? hurts their tourist industry.

- Ban goods from the UK (not very bright).

- Ban export of oil and gas (not very bright).

In a trade war the Scots will lose so it is ridiculous for their politicians to make decisions that will lead to conflict with the UK.

One more point

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