Agreed we tried to reform from within and failed the EU will have to come to that decision on their own.

One more point

We will have to disagree. It was a reduction of standards in pursuit of the fantasy of social equality.

So you don't think the thought was for the people and the good of the UK. if apathy had a part to play that got brexit across the line then don't preach about how stupid it was to anyone who voted. Tell the ones who didn't. We are 4 months in and already some can see the future! Amazing how they can't see the future if we stayed in the eu.

No I most certainly don't. No-one at the top of the Tory Party wanted, or expected, that the vote would go that way. Their motivation was solely to get rid of the UKIP problem as they feared that there would be sufficient drift to let Labour back in and for their future to be questionable.

That a bunch of hardworking arch anti-Europeans existed is obvious. They have been there for decades. That apathy existed was equally obvious but also both understandable and predictable. It's always easier to promote change and jam tomorrow than it is to promote the status quo.

Now we see the result when the promises and expectations have to be turned into realities.

If any now see a future that is better than the past then I don't encounter them. Come and talk to some of our local fishermen and you will realise just how let down they feel. If the vote was held again now I would wager my house against a penny the result would be the other way. That sweet jam has been shown to actually be a very bitter marmalade. We have all been fooled by sweet promises in the past. Some of us though are wise enough to recognise them as being empty before the event.

Decisions of this kind ought not be allowed to be impacted by the jam tomorrow syndrome. They are just too important to become political footballs. They always need to be taken in Parliament, by those we have elected to study and consider all the issues.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

10 weeks.....

I was 29 and so far as I recall it was pretty plain sailing and regarded by most as a golden opportunity. Only those who regarded it as "us giving up our Sovereignty" seemed unhappy, and they went on being unhappy until Brexit. It was always a fake argument with only emotional consequences but there are still those who put such things above the welfare and prosperity of their fellow citizens.

I know which side of this argument Shirley Williams stood on and with her passing we have lost another voice of reason.

Now we are likely to witness the break-up of the UK, which would probably have been avoided without Brexit. Is that really a price worth paying? Political systems evolve to suit altered environments and all I ever saw from the Brexiteers was fear of progress, rather than an embrace of it. Baroness Williams must have viewed the last few years with great sadness.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.