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The Farm to Fork Thread
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 ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Dec 20 4.58pm |
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Originally posted by kingdowieonthewall
clonakilty sausages, mmmm Nice aren't they. I'm often in Clonakilty. Nice place to visit too, if you get the chance.
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Mapletree  Croydon 09 Dec 20 5.12pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
A helpful consideration of the future there. Perhaps they could adapt like everyone has to in the end. Where I live everyone's a farmer - they do this and alsosell to more 'boutique' type stores. We're obviously far more fancy pants in the West of Ireland than Wales. The issue constantly spoken about here is supermarket prices and middleman prices. Cut them out - go direct to the consumer. Even go online! Such revelations, it's called business and marketing. At the end of the day, farms are businesses and need to think of their business model. If they did that as much as they moan, they'd all be millionaires. I can't help notice you are in the European Union, where farmers have a little more predictability about their future. UK farmers are a mixed bunch but many are outstanding, which is why UK farming is so excellent. They are highly imaginative. But they aren't magicians. Irish farming is overall not as good. It is big on dairy farming specifically. Vets are not called to sick pigs in Ireland and this is the way we are going with male calves that are surplus to the dairy industry. Calves and pigs are worth significantly less than the cost of a vet, so it can be cheaper to simply let them die. The UK Government has made clear it aims to emasculate the small farmers, especially on upland farms. Farmers have slammed Defra Secretary George Eustice's 'laughable' claim that sheep producers could diversify into beef in the event of the lamb price crashing following a no-deal. Environment Secretary George Eustice made the controversial comments on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday 15 November. Host Andrew Marr highlighted that sheep farmers could be 'devastated' in the event of a no-deal between the UK and EU following the transition period, as 90% of the sector's exports are sent to the bloc. Mr Eustice replied: "That's not correct. It's also the case that the UK is by far and away the largest producer of lamb in the EU, some 35% of it. "We would sell it, but it would increase prices in the EU. You have to accept tariffs do also have an impact on prices. The price of lamb would rise in the EU. That would also mean that demand in the EU for lamb would go down and there would be a fall in prices here in the UK in the short term." The minister did, however, admit that lamb tariffs could cause disruption for farmers, adding that "mixed farmers could always diversify into beef because the UK would be importing less from Ireland".
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Dec 20 9.35pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I can't help notice you are in the European Union, where farmers have a little more predictability about their future. UK farmers are a mixed bunch but many are outstanding, which is why UK farming is so excellent. They are highly imaginative. But they aren't magicians. Irish farming is overall not as good. It is big on dairy farming specifically. Vets are not called to sick pigs in Ireland and this is the way we are going with male calves that are surplus to the dairy industry. Calves and pigs are worth significantly less than the cost of a vet, so it can be cheaper to simply let them die. The UK Government has made clear it aims to emasculate the small farmers, especially on upland farms. Farmers have slammed Defra Secretary George Eustice's 'laughable' claim that sheep producers could diversify into beef in the event of the lamb price crashing following a no-deal. Environment Secretary George Eustice made the controversial comments on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday 15 November. Host Andrew Marr highlighted that sheep farmers could be 'devastated' in the event of a no-deal between the UK and EU following the transition period, as 90% of the sector's exports are sent to the bloc. Mr Eustice replied: "That's not correct. It's also the case that the UK is by far and away the largest producer of lamb in the EU, some 35% of it. "We would sell it, but it would increase prices in the EU. You have to accept tariffs do also have an impact on prices. The price of lamb would rise in the EU. That would also mean that demand in the EU for lamb would go down and there would be a fall in prices here in the UK in the short term." The minister did, however, admit that lamb tariffs could cause disruption for farmers, adding that "mixed farmers could always diversify into beef because the UK would be importing less from Ireland". YUUUGE opportunity to export Lamb to the USA. Most if not all of the Lamb is from Australia (& for some reason all Halal)
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| Mapletree Croydon 09 Dec 20 10.13pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
YUUUGE opportunity to export Lamb to the USA. Most if not all of the Lamb is from Australia (& for some reason all Halal) Australian lamb is mass produced and cheap. An Australian US trade agreement was signed in 2004 having taken 50 years to put in place. British is higher quality but most meat is used in restaurants and ready made meals where quality comes second to price. And we have no trade deal. Even when we get one we are a higher price producer.
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 Dec 20 11.06pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
I can't help notice you are in the European Union, where farmers have a little more predictability about their future. UK farmers are a mixed bunch but many are outstanding, which is why UK farming is so excellent. They are highly imaginative. But they aren't magicians. Irish farming is overall not as good. It is big on dairy farming specifically. Vets are not called to sick pigs in Ireland and this is the way we are going with male calves that are surplus to the dairy industry. Calves and pigs are worth significantly less than the cost of a vet, so it can be cheaper to simply let them die. The UK Government has made clear it aims to emasculate the small farmers, especially on upland farms. Farmers have slammed Defra Secretary George Eustice's 'laughable' claim that sheep producers could diversify into beef in the event of the lamb price crashing following a no-deal. Environment Secretary George Eustice made the controversial comments on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday 15 November. Host Andrew Marr highlighted that sheep farmers could be 'devastated' in the event of a no-deal between the UK and EU following the transition period, as 90% of the sector's exports are sent to the bloc. Mr Eustice replied: "That's not correct. It's also the case that the UK is by far and away the largest producer of lamb in the EU, some 35% of it. "We would sell it, but it would increase prices in the EU. You have to accept tariffs do also have an impact on prices. The price of lamb would rise in the EU. That would also mean that demand in the EU for lamb would go down and there would be a fall in prices here in the UK in the short term." The minister did, however, admit that lamb tariffs could cause disruption for farmers, adding that "mixed farmers could always diversify into beef because the UK would be importing less from Ireland". It's a huge area, in fact I believe it's the EU's biggest expense. I read articles about how new EU countries are now taking their slice, putting huge pressure on traditional EU countries like Ireland but more so, as usual France. So the EU gravy train may not have been as reliable as people supposed. My main point is around structure really. I suspect you can see what I mean. I don't doubt the quality you speak of but everything I've seen in Ireland is pretty stringent. Of course, we have our law breakers. There was an article not so long ago that I might try to find about how a massive slice of the EU subsidy in Ireland was going to a very small set of producers, 3 off the top of my head. I dread to think what they're like. Around here, we are so close to farms, and they have ways of selling direct, that have really only popped up in the last few years. For instance, my turkey will be from 'The friendly farmer' at the market. It will be twice the supermarket price, but well worth it. A friend of mine, well more drinking buddy from college, inherited a large enough farm nearby. He offered a package deal delivery service across the area. We subscribed for a couple of years. Plenty we know still do. It was different prices, but we paid 15 a week for a box of organic vegetables straight from the farm. We're just not a big family and couldn't justify it anymore. Basically, he bought a large van and grew, packaged and delivered himself, so tough but obviously could make a lot more than selling to supermarkets. Realistically, what we were paying 15 for the supermarket would probably pay 50c. For dairy, there are large co-ops here, often consistening of a large number of small farmers. They took up the mantle of being milkmen. Delivering straight to the customer - again cutting out the silly supermarket prices. These are the type of things that I believe farmers can do - and have seen them doing. There needs to be a different approach, relying on government probably isn't the best plan going forward. This won't answer everything or be for everyone. The big guys can sell to the supermarkets, less costs. The small guys should consider selling to the more discerning and making the money themselves. Bring the stuff to the people. If it's better people will pay more and the profit is straight to the person who needs it.
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Dec 20 8.23am |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
It's a huge area, in fact I believe it's the EU's biggest expense. I read articles about how new EU countries are now taking their slice, putting huge pressure on traditional EU countries like Ireland but more so, as usual France. So the EU gravy train may not have been as reliable as people supposed. My main point is around structure really. I suspect you can see what I mean. I don't doubt the quality you speak of but everything I've seen in Ireland is pretty stringent. Of course, we have our law breakers. There was an article not so long ago that I might try to find about how a massive slice of the EU subsidy in Ireland was going to a very small set of producers, 3 off the top of my head. I dread to think what they're like. Around here, we are so close to farms, and they have ways of selling direct, that have really only popped up in the last few years. For instance, my turkey will be from 'The friendly farmer' at the market. It will be twice the supermarket price, but well worth it. A friend of mine, well more drinking buddy from college, inherited a large enough farm nearby. He offered a package deal delivery service across the area. We subscribed for a couple of years. Plenty we know still do. It was different prices, but we paid 15 a week for a box of organic vegetables straight from the farm. We're just not a big family and couldn't justify it anymore. Basically, he bought a large van and grew, packaged and delivered himself, so tough but obviously could make a lot more than selling to supermarkets. Realistically, what we were paying 15 for the supermarket would probably pay 50c. For dairy, there are large co-ops here, often consistening of a large number of small farmers. They took up the mantle of being milkmen. Delivering straight to the customer - again cutting out the silly supermarket prices. These are the type of things that I believe farmers can do - and have seen them doing. There needs to be a different approach, relying on government probably isn't the best plan going forward. This won't answer everything or be for everyone. The big guys can sell to the supermarkets, less costs. The small guys should consider selling to the more discerning and making the money themselves. Bring the stuff to the people. If it's better people will pay more and the profit is straight to the person who needs it. And you think farmers haven’t been doing these things in England and Wales? For decades mate And loads of them have glamping pods or shepherd’s huts. They have all had to diversify, many many years ago. And that brings us back to using surplus areas for mini industrial estates. Irish farmers went mad on them, then got badly caught out in the financial crash. My firm ended up with loads of part completed buildings. So is that what we want from farming? Real Estate businesses whilst we import low quality food from countries rapidly destroying the world’s soil. Edited by Mapletree (10 Dec 2020 8.23am)
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 10 Dec 20 9.57am |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
And you think farmers haven’t been doing these things in England and Wales? For decades mate And loads of them have glamping pods or shepherd’s huts. They have all had to diversify, many many years ago. And that brings us back to using surplus areas for mini industrial estates. Irish farmers went mad on them, then got badly caught out in the financial crash. My firm ended up with loads of part completed buildings. So is that what we want from farming? Real Estate businesses whilst we import low quality food from countries rapidly destroying the world’s soil. Edited by Mapletree (10 Dec 2020 8.23am) I suggested keeping farming. You went on a rant about development and diversification. Read my post, it suggests ways to bring produce to the consumer. You want to turn it anti Irish go ahead. You seem to know loads about it. This isn't 2003.It certainly doesn't warrant your response. You're just backing up people's theories that farmers love to moan and cry poverty. I gave successful real examples of farming. You want to go glamping, hardly going to ruin the topsoil is it? In fact, UK and Ireland are nothing to do with the world's supply of topsoil.
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Dec 20 9.06pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
I suggested keeping farming. Yes, and I said UK farmers are way ahead of you on that but you didn't absorb that point. You went on a rant about development and diversification. Read my post, it suggests ways to bring produce to the consumer. I didn't go on a rant, I said not only do UK farmers try to sell locally and also via e.g Abel and Cole, but also find other ways to innovate and diversify. They have had to. But they still earn £50k per year per farm You want to turn it anti Irish go ahead. You seem to know loads about it. This isn't 2003.It certainly doesn't warrant your response. You're just backing up people's theories that farmers love to moan and cry poverty. You think Irish farming is as good as the UK? Or even is reasonably ethical? It has a poor reputation. I am not a farmer. I have given you the facts on income, you make up your own mind I gave successful real examples of farming. These were simply old hat but they work when you have the support of the CAP. You want to go glamping, hardly going to ruin the topsoil is it? Did I say that it did? Quite the opposite, farmers should do everything in their power to survive. But I don't think they should turn over large parts of their farm to industrial usage, as has happened so much. In fact, UK and Ireland are nothing to do with the world's supply of topsoil. I don't understand your point. Of course they use topsoil. And yes, they are eroding it. 3 million tonnes of topsoil erodes from the UK every year. The UK is 30 to 40 years away from “the fundamental eradication of soil fertility” in parts of the country according to Michael Gove when he was environment secretary. Here is an article on soil degradation in Ireland.
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| Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 10 Dec 20 9.28pm |
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If it's legal or about to become legal I would be growing cannabis. Either for medical or recreational use.
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Ouzo Dan  Behind you 10 Dec 20 9.34pm |
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Little bit of a tangent out here in Slovakia, Goat & sheep cheese is hugely popular, yet you'll never find goat or lamb in the shops/restaurants, I'm assuming the livestock that is raised here is exported elsewhere. Its also not uncommon here for back gardens to be used to raise livestock. Edited by Ouzo Dan (10 Dec 2020 9.36pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Dec 20 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
Little bit of a tangent out here in Slovakia, Goat & sheep cheese is hugely popular, yet you'll never find goat or lamb in the shops/restaurants, I'm assuming the livestock that is raised here is exported elsewhere. Its also not uncommon here for back gardens to be used to raise livestock. Edited by Ouzo Dan (10 Dec 2020 9.36pm) My daughter tells me all this is the way forward. Back to having kitchen gardens. She thinks there’s money in sheep and goat milk. I hope you had a drip proof plastic bag. Pigs work well with forests by the way. Unlike deer which are disastrous. Edited by Mapletree (10 Dec 2020 10.12pm)
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| Mapletree Croydon 10 Dec 20 10.13pm |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
If it's legal or about to become legal I would be growing cannabis. Either for medical or recreational use. You are originally from Croydon then Jim.
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