Starting to adore Keir Starmer.

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Starting to adore Keir Starmer.

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Page 4 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >

Hrolf The Ganger 24 Sep 20 6.19pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I don't hate the Tories! I hate hard-right politics and populism. The Tories of MacMillan, Heath, Major, and even Cameron I empathised with. I am, and always have been, on the centre right. So when Blair occupied that ground I empathised with him too. The current version of the Tory party have no real visions, ethics or standards. They appeal to the lowest common denominators. They follow public sentiment and don't lead it. They make me ashamed to be British. Just as reading some of the opinions here make me ashamed to be a Palace supporter, although I comfort myself they are only a tiny minority. So they do what the public wants and that is bad? They just appear to do that of course, and that is politics. I feel like your insight is rather slanted and your arrogance comes across in everything you say. To criticise so called populism suggests that you think you know better than those stupid ordinary people and judging by some of the twaddle you post, I seriously doubt that to be accurate. I was in Cornwall the other week and it is like another world compared to the hell on earth you wish upon the rest of us.
Alert a moderator to this post

Hrolf The Ganger

24 Sep 20 6.19pm

Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I don't hate the Tories! I hate hard-right politics and populism. The Tories of MacMillan, Heath, Major, and even Cameron I empathised with. I am, and always have been, on the centre right. So when Blair occupied that ground I empathised with him too.

The current version of the Tory party have no real visions, ethics or standards. They appeal to the lowest common denominators. They follow public sentiment and don't lead it. They make me ashamed to be British. Just as reading some of the opinions here make me ashamed to be a Palace supporter, although I comfort myself they are only a tiny minority.

So they do what the public wants and that is bad? They just appear to do that of course, and that is politics.

I feel like your insight is rather slanted and your arrogance comes across in everything you say. To criticise so called populism suggests that you think you know better than those stupid ordinary people and judging by some of the twaddle you post, I seriously doubt that to be accurate.

I was in Cornwall the other week and it is like another world compared to the hell on earth you wish upon the rest of us.

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 24 Sep 20 6.32pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Starmer was head of the CPS when the decision was made not to prosecute Savile but he was not the reviewing lawyer for the case. An official investigation commissioned later by Starmer criticised both prosecutors and police for their handling of the allegations. And we have Starmer to thank for instituting the right to review of a CPS decision. I find it hard to imagine that the CPS wasn't aware of what was going on.....Is Starmer a clean skin over what happened? I don't know. The Labour party however...that's a whole different story. They and their councils and supporting activists in the affected towns and cities have the responsibility of what their politics enabled. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

24 Sep 20 6.32pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Starmer was head of the CPS when the decision was made not to prosecute Savile but he was not the reviewing lawyer for the case.

An official investigation commissioned later by Starmer criticised both prosecutors and police for their handling of the allegations.

And we have Starmer to thank for instituting the right to review of a CPS decision.

I find it hard to imagine that the CPS wasn't aware of what was going on.....Is Starmer a clean skin over what happened? I don't know.

The Labour party however...that's a whole different story. They and their councils and supporting activists in the affected towns and cities have the responsibility of what their politics enabled.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

steeleye20 Croydon 24 Sep 20 6.52pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I find it hard to imagine that the CPS wasn't aware of what was going on.....Is Starmer a clean skin over what happened? I don't know. The Labour party however...that's a whole different story. They and their councils and supporting activists in the affected towns and cities have the responsibility of what their politics enabled. People forget Saville was a popular celebrity associated with good works road safety campaigns etc. and seen with people like Mrs Thatcher. He took his secrets to the grave and really all this came out very late, people came forward saying he had interfered with them 10/20 years earlier etc. I always thought, well what is the use as he is dead anyway, beyond any justice. CPS decisions you would think would be based on the certainty of success, at the time they did not think they would win.
Alert a moderator to this post

steeleye20

Croydon 24 Sep 20 6.52pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I find it hard to imagine that the CPS wasn't aware of what was going on.....Is Starmer a clean skin over what happened? I don't know.

The Labour party however...that's a whole different story. They and their councils and supporting activists in the affected towns and cities have the responsibility of what their politics enabled.

People forget Saville was a popular celebrity associated with good works road safety campaigns etc. and seen with people like Mrs Thatcher.

He took his secrets to the grave and really all this came out very late, people came forward saying he had interfered with them 10/20 years earlier etc.

I always thought, well what is the use as he is dead anyway, beyond any justice.

CPS decisions you would think would be based on the certainty of success, at the time they did not think they would win.

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 24 Sep 20 7.01pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 People forget Saville was a popular celebrity associated with good works road safety campaigns etc. and seen with people like Mrs Thatcher. He took his secrets to the grave and really all this came out very late, people came forward saying he had interfered with them 10/20 years earlier etc. I always thought, well what is the use as he is dead anyway, beyond any justice. CPS decisions you would think would be based on the certainty of success, at the time they did not think they would win. Yep I agree. I think with Savile you have a lesson in human nature and it's 'go along to get along' reality. The entertainment industry is probably up there with the worst of professions for that. An individual isn't going to risk their career on whispers and they aren't going to ask questions and put themselves in a dilemma....I think we can give some kudos to Johnny Rotten for saying something at the actual time. We all know how it works, no one serious with actual power knew or was interested....I suspect the latter. Savile was highly intelligent and he knew how to balance the system to work for him. Most of us had no idea and thought the world of him for his charity work. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2020 7.12pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays

24 Sep 20 7.01pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

People forget Saville was a popular celebrity associated with good works road safety campaigns etc. and seen with people like Mrs Thatcher.

He took his secrets to the grave and really all this came out very late, people came forward saying he had interfered with them 10/20 years earlier etc.

I always thought, well what is the use as he is dead anyway, beyond any justice.

CPS decisions you would think would be based on the certainty of success, at the time they did not think they would win.

Yep I agree.

I think with Savile you have a lesson in human nature and it's 'go along to get along' reality. The entertainment industry is probably up there with the worst of professions for that.

An individual isn't going to risk their career on whispers and they aren't going to ask questions and put themselves in a dilemma....I think we can give some kudos to Johnny Rotten for saying something at the actual time.

We all know how it works, no one serious with actual power knew or was interested....I suspect the latter.

Savile was highly intelligent and he knew how to balance the system to work for him. Most of us had no idea and thought the world of him for his charity work.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Sep 2020 7.12pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert a moderator to this post

steeleye20 Croydon 24 Sep 20 7.05pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yep I agree. I think with Savile you have a lesson in human nature and it's 'go along to get along' reality. The entertainment industry is probably up there with the worst of professions for that. An individual isn't going risk their career on whispers and they aren't going to ask questions and put themselves in a dilemma. We all know how it works. Savile was highly intelligent and he knew how to balance the system to work for him. Most of us had no idea and thought the world of him for his charity work. Do you remember 'clunk-click, every trip?' The mind boggles......
Alert a moderator to this post

steeleye20

Croydon 24 Sep 20 7.05pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yep I agree.

I think with Savile you have a lesson in human nature and it's 'go along to get along' reality. The entertainment industry is probably up there with the worst of professions for that.

An individual isn't going risk their career on whispers and they aren't going to ask questions and put themselves in a dilemma. We all know how it works.

Savile was highly intelligent and he knew how to balance the system to work for him. Most of us had no idea and thought the world of him for his charity work.

Do you remember 'clunk-click, every trip?'

The mind boggles......

Alert a moderator to this post

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 Sep 20 7.58pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Do you remember 'clunk-click, every trip?' The mind boggles...... Probably the worst LSD you could take. Red and Blue Army!
Alert a moderator to this post

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 Sep 20 7.58pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Do you remember 'clunk-click, every trip?'

The mind boggles......

Probably the worst LSD you could take.

Red and Blue Army!

Alert a moderator to this post

kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 24 Sep 20 8.09pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC Probably the worst LSD you could take. now then, now then.. Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
Alert a moderator to this post

kingdowieonthewall

Sussex, ex-Cronx. 24 Sep 20 8.09pm

Send a Private Message to kingdowieonthewall

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Probably the worst LSD you could take.

now then, now then..

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 20 9.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger So they do what the public wants and that is bad? They just appear to do that of course, and that is politics. I feel like your insight is rather slanted and your arrogance comes across in everything you say. To criticise so called populism suggests that you think you know better than those stupid ordinary people and judging by some of the twaddle you post, I seriously doubt that to be accurate. I was in Cornwall the other week and it is like another world compared to the hell on earth you wish upon the rest of us. Of course it's bad. To remind you of something that is often overlooked these days. We live in a representative, and not a direct, democracy. It's the job of those representatives to use their collective judgement to deliver what we need and not what we want. That's why populism is bad. It panders to the popular prejudices of the day. It follows and doesn't lead. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 26 Sep 20 9.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So they do what the public wants and that is bad? They just appear to do that of course, and that is politics.

I was in Cornwall the other week and it is like another world compared to the hell on earth you wish upon the rest of us.

Of course it's bad.

To remind you of something that is often overlooked these days. We live in a representative, and not a direct, democracy. It's the job of those representatives to use their collective judgement to deliver what we need and not what we want.

That's why populism is bad. It panders to the popular prejudices of the day. It follows and doesn't lead.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert a moderator to this post

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 26 Sep 20 10.54pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course it's bad. To remind you of something that is often overlooked these days. We live in a representative, and not a direct, democracy. It's the job of those representatives to use their collective judgement to deliver what we need and not what we want. That's why populism is bad. It panders to the popular prejudices of the day. It follows and doesn't lead. These CONS do exactly as you said, i have also stated it, just pander to the press and make decisions day by day on their leads, they do not lead as a government should do, hence all the changing of minds and policy every other day, the public seem to finally be getting fed up with this, boris"s days are numbered, he is someone you would like to drink with in the pub someone said but not a leader of a country.
Alert a moderator to this post

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 26 Sep 20 10.54pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it's bad.

That's why populism is bad. It panders to the popular prejudices of the day. It follows and doesn't lead.

These CONS do exactly as you said, i have also stated it, just pander to the press and make decisions day by day on their leads, they do not lead as a government should do, hence all the changing of minds and policy every other day, the public seem to finally be getting fed up with this, boris"s days are numbered, he is someone you would like to drink with in the pub someone said but not a leader of a country.

Alert a moderator to this post

Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 20 11.07pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course it's bad. To remind you of something that is often overlooked these days. We live in a representative, and not a direct, democracy. It's the job of those representatives to use their collective judgement to deliver what we need and not what we want. That's why populism is bad. It panders to the popular prejudices of the day. It follows and doesn't lead. You aren't really interested in reason are you Wisbech. You twist and turn with selective logic that suits your agenda. Fact is that 'populism' is just another word used to undermine opposing views. Whether something is 'popular' does not define whether is wise or foolish. It is merely what most people think.
Alert a moderator to this post

Hrolf The Ganger

26 Sep 20 11.07pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it's bad.

That's why populism is bad. It panders to the popular prejudices of the day. It follows and doesn't lead.

You aren't really interested in reason are you Wisbech.

You twist and turn with selective logic that suits your agenda.

Fact is that 'populism' is just another word used to undermine opposing views. Whether something is 'popular' does not define whether is wise or foolish.

It is merely what most people think.

Alert a moderator to this post

The Dolphin 27 Sep 20 9.19am
Originally posted by croydon proud These CONS do exactly as you said, i have also stated it, just pander to the press and make decisions day by day on their leads, they do not lead as a government should do, hence all the changing of minds and policy every other day, the public seem to finally be getting fed up with this, boris"s days are numbered, he is someone you would like to drink with in the pub someone said but not a leader of a country. I Governments have done it for years - Blair was the original Chamelon! With social media and the biased forensic examination of every word spoken by the main media together with anyone and everyone offering an opinion whether it is wanted or not I suspect it is impossible to make the right decision anyway.
Alert a moderator to this post

The Dolphin

27 Sep 20 9.19am

Originally posted by croydon proud

I
Governments have done it for years - Blair was the original Chamelon!
With social media and the biased forensic examination of every word spoken by the main media together with anyone and everyone offering an opinion whether it is wanted or not I suspect it is impossible to make the right decision anyway.

Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 27 Sep 20 8.52pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You aren't really interested in reason are you Wisbech. You twist and turn with selective logic that suits your agenda. Fact is that 'populism' is just another word used to undermine opposing views. Whether something is 'popular' does not define whether is wise or foolish. It is merely what most people think. The lack of reason is all yours. I have explained what populism does. Of course a popular policy may be wise, or foolish! Following something just because it's popular has to be unwise though. The job of politicians is to be wise and deliver what is required and not what is popular. What "most people think" is indeed populism! But it's a poor way to lead a country when what most people think can be foolish. Or led by those who wish us harm and manipulated through the media. We need to be lead by people who can brush aside such influences and ensure we do what is needed. Then they need to defend that every 5 years. That's when WE decide if it's popular or not. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
Alert a moderator to this post

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 27 Sep 20 8.52pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You aren't really interested in reason are you Wisbech.

You twist and turn with selective logic that suits your agenda.

Fact is that 'populism' is just another word used to undermine opposing views. Whether something is 'popular' does not define whether is wise or foolish.

It is merely what most people think.

The lack of reason is all yours. I have explained what populism does. Of course a popular policy may be wise, or foolish! Following something just because it's popular has to be unwise though.

The job of politicians is to be wise and deliver what is required and not what is popular.

What "most people think" is indeed populism! But it's a poor way to lead a country when what most people think can be foolish. Or led by those who wish us harm and manipulated through the media.

We need to be lead by people who can brush aside such influences and ensure we do what is needed. Then they need to defend that every 5 years. That's when WE decide if it's popular or not.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert a moderator to this post

Page 4 of 8 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

Starting to adore Keir Starmer.

Site Map

New users

Existing users

Sponsors