Dopey led down the garden path.

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Dopey led down the garden path.

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cryrst The garden of England 23 Sep 19 9.37pm
Originally posted by samprior I agree family values in this country may have wained but what specific demonizing of the native population and culture has led to this? I can not quite understand what you mean here. Secondly what are white working class people currently not allowed to be proud of? Reporting muslim grooming gangs apparently!
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cryrst

The garden of England 23 Sep 19 9.37pm

Originally posted by samprior

I agree family values in this country may have wained but what specific demonizing of the native population and culture has led to this? I can not quite understand what you mean here.

Secondly what are white working class people currently not allowed to be proud of?

Reporting muslim grooming gangs apparently!

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samprior Hamburg 23 Sep 19 10.00pm
Originally posted by W12 Because the traditional working class British family is no longer celebrated anywhere in British culture. Pretty much every other type of family is actively encouraged be it multi racial or just plain non white, single parent, gays/trans etc. Even pepper pig is clearly middle class FFS. It’s also been hollowed out by the benefits system when people “cannot afford” to work. Yep the benefits system has its faults, along with other contributing factors to making raising a family financially challenging such as zero hour contracts, large corporations scrimping on staff salaries, cuts to public services etc What is the traditional working class British family? Is it the same as it was 10/20/30 years ago? Will it always remain the same? Can it always remain the same? I guess the representation of the traditional British working class family in the media has changed for sure. In part to reflect modern society and in part to push what some might feel an overly liberal/inclusive agenda. When it comes to what's on TV I'm not the most informed as I don't own one but I'm all for positive representations of the British working class family. ..but I guess there's a huge (and interesting) debate to be had over what that is as I'm sure people hold a vast array of valid and personal opinions on how one defines British, working class and the family. To reach a consensus on that would be tough but the only logical starting point. Ps the questions here are more just me thinking out loud/verbal diarrhea not ones I expect a response to...though obviously that's your choice Edited by samprior (23 Sep 2019 10.02pm)
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samprior

Hamburg 23 Sep 19 10.00pm

Originally posted by W12

Because the traditional working class British family is no longer celebrated anywhere in British culture. Pretty much every other type of family is actively encouraged be it multi racial or just plain non white, single parent, gays/trans etc. Even pepper pig is clearly middle class FFS. It’s also been hollowed out by the benefits system when people “cannot afford” to work.

Yep the benefits system has its faults, along with other contributing factors to making raising a family financially challenging such as zero hour contracts, large corporations scrimping on staff salaries, cuts to public services etc

What is the traditional working class British family? Is it the same as it was 10/20/30 years ago? Will it always remain the same? Can it always remain the same?

I guess the representation of the traditional British working class family in the media has changed for sure. In part to reflect modern society and in part to push what some might feel an overly liberal/inclusive agenda. When it comes to what's on TV I'm not the most informed as I don't own one but I'm all for positive representations of the British working class family.

..but I guess there's a huge (and interesting) debate to be had over what that is as I'm sure people hold a vast array of valid and personal opinions on how one defines British, working class and the family. To reach a consensus on that would be tough but the only logical starting point.

Ps the questions here are more just me thinking out loud/verbal diarrhea not ones I expect a response to...though obviously that's your choice

Edited by samprior (23 Sep 2019 10.02pm)

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.TUX. 23 Sep 19 10.17pm
Originally posted by samprior I agree family values in this country may have wained but what specific demonizing of the native population and culture has led to this? I can not quite understand what you mean here. Secondly what are white working class people currently not allowed to be proud of? Our flag? Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

23 Sep 19 10.17pm

Originally posted by samprior

I agree family values in this country may have wained but what specific demonizing of the native population and culture has led to this? I can not quite understand what you mean here.

Secondly what are white working class people currently not allowed to be proud of?

Our flag?

Buy Litecoin.

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samprior Hamburg 23 Sep 19 10.42pm
Originally posted by .TUX. Our flag? Hmm it's a strange one. In my day to day I don't have much use for a flag. But during the world cup it's out which I guess is the same for many but some would argue not enough. I get the flag can be used a symbol so for some can be devisive as the message behind it is not always the same. For me I'd stand under the flag along with whoever wants to unify under it. But I'd walk away if the flag was just used as a display of superiority (unless it's in a world cup). So fly that flag proudly (and have a nice prepared answer that you can proudly reel off when someone asks you about why it's up...as there'll always be one!) Hmm what would mine include. Family, football, Beatles, Orwell, the countryside...so much goodness
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samprior

Hamburg 23 Sep 19 10.42pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

Our flag?

Hmm it's a strange one. In my day to day I don't have much use for a flag. But during the world cup it's out which I guess is the same for many but some would argue not enough.

I get the flag can be used a symbol so for some can be devisive as the message behind it is not always the same.

For me I'd stand under the flag along with whoever wants to unify under it. But I'd walk away if the flag was just used as a display of superiority (unless it's in a world cup).

So fly that flag proudly (and have a nice prepared answer that you can proudly reel off when someone asks you about why it's up...as there'll always be one!)

Hmm what would mine include. Family, football, Beatles, Orwell, the countryside...so much goodness

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W12 23 Sep 19 10.45pm
Originally posted by samprior Yep the benefits system has its faults, along with other contributing factors to making raising a family financially challenging such as zero hour contracts, large corporations scrimping on staff salaries, cuts to public services etc What is the traditional working class British family? Is it the same as it was 10/20/30 years ago? Will it always remain the same? Can it always remain the same? I guess the representation of the traditional British working class family in the media has changed for sure. In part to reflect modern society and in part to push what some might feel an overly liberal/inclusive agenda. When it comes to what's on TV I'm not the most informed as I don't own one but I'm all for positive representations of the British working class family. ..but I guess there's a huge (and interesting) debate to be had over what that is as I'm sure people hold a vast array of valid and personal opinions on how one defines British, working class and the family. To reach a consensus on that would be tough but the only logical starting point. Ps the questions here are more just me thinking out loud/verbal diarrhea not ones I expect a response to...though obviously that's your choice Edited by samprior (23 Sep 2019 10.02pm) These things are always changing but in this case I believe most of the changes were due to social engineering.
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W12 23 Sep 19 10.45pm

Originally posted by samprior

What is the traditional working class British family? Is it the same as it was 10/20/30 years ago? Will it always remain the same? Can it always remain the same?

Ps the questions here are more just me thinking out loud/verbal diarrhea not ones I expect a response to...though obviously that's your choice

Edited by samprior (23 Sep 2019 10.02pm)

These things are always changing but in this case I believe most of the changes were due to social engineering.

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.TUX. 23 Sep 19 10.51pm
Originally posted by samprior Hmm it's a strange one. In my day to day I don't have much use for a flag. But during the world cup it's out which I guess is the same for many but some would argue not enough. I get the flag can be used a symbol so for some can be devisive as the message behind it is not always the same. For me I'd stand under the flag along with whoever wants to unify under it. But I'd walk away if the flag was just used as a display of superiority (unless it's in a world cup). So fly that flag proudly (and have a nice prepared answer that you can proudly reel off when someone asks you about why it's up...as there'll always be one!) Hmm what would mine include. Family, football, Beatles, Orwell, the countryside...so much goodness No, it's quite simple. Buy Litecoin.
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.TUX.

23 Sep 19 10.51pm

Originally posted by samprior

Hmm it's a strange one. In my day to day I don't have much use for a flag. But during the world cup it's out which I guess is the same for many but some would argue not enough.

I get the flag can be used a symbol so for some can be devisive as the message behind it is not always the same.

For me I'd stand under the flag along with whoever wants to unify under it. But I'd walk away if the flag was just used as a display of superiority (unless it's in a world cup).

So fly that flag proudly (and have a nice prepared answer that you can proudly reel off when someone asks you about why it's up...as there'll always be one!)

Hmm what would mine include. Family, football, Beatles, Orwell, the countryside...so much goodness

No, it's quite simple.

Buy Litecoin.

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tome Inner Tantalus Time. 24 Sep 19 6.42am
Originally posted by W12 These things are always changing but in this case I believe most of the changes were due to social engineering. Where do you see that, then? Personally I wonder why many posters are wary of change or challenge. Society has always changed and evolved, the introduction of new ideas, technology and other people always encourages shifts in society. I tend to think it's a positive thing that reduces the prevalence of bad ideas and out of date notions. Also, we are all just people. What is it you are worried about in a scenario in which there are fewer 'white' people? As Matov argues, it's the values that matter - people are just people. Things aren't going to change much unless lots of people change their views and vote in laws which bring about that change. Seems to me that universally, change is happening faster and more people are moving about. The uncertainty this creates is often the problem, visibly different newcomers are merely the most visible aspect. But typically internal migration is much larger than international migration. A one and a two...
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tome

Inner Tantalus Time. 24 Sep 19 6.42am

Originally posted by W12

These things are always changing but in this case I believe most of the changes were due to social engineering.

Where do you see that, then?

Personally I wonder why many posters are wary of change or challenge. Society has always changed and evolved, the introduction of new ideas, technology and other people always encourages shifts in society. I tend to think it's a positive thing that reduces the prevalence of bad ideas and out of date notions.

Also, we are all just people. What is it you are worried about in a scenario in which there are fewer 'white' people? As Matov argues, it's the values that matter - people are just people. Things aren't going to change much unless lots of people change their views and vote in laws which bring about that change.

Seems to me that universally, change is happening faster and more people are moving about. The uncertainty this creates is often the problem, visibly different newcomers are merely the most visible aspect. But typically internal migration is much larger than international migration.

A one and a two...

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samprior Hamburg 24 Sep 19 7.05am
Originally posted by samprior Hmm it's a strange one. In my day to day I don't have much use for a flag. But during the world cup it's out which I guess is the same for many but some would argue not enough. I get the flag can be used a symbol so for some can be devisive as the message behind it is not always the same. For me I'd stand under the flag along with whoever wants to unify under it. But I'd walk away if the flag was just used as a display of superiority (unless it's in a world cup). So fly that flag proudly (and have a nice prepared answer that you can proudly reel off when someone asks you about why it's up...as there'll always be one!) Hmm what would mine include. Family, football, Beatles, Orwell, the countryside...so much goodness Originally posted by .TUX. No, it's quite simple. Fair enough but for the points I've mentioned I'd obviously argue it is not. But I guess we can agree to disagree. Simple Have a good day
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samprior

Hamburg 24 Sep 19 7.05am

Originally posted by samprior
Hmm it's a strange one. In my day to day I don't have much use for a flag. But during the world cup it's out which I guess is the same for many but some would argue not enough.

I get the flag can be used a symbol so for some can be devisive as the message behind it is not always the same.

For me I'd stand under the flag along with whoever wants to unify under it. But I'd walk away if the flag was just used as a display of superiority (unless it's in a world cup).

So fly that flag proudly (and have a nice prepared answer that you can proudly reel off when someone asks you about why it's up...as there'll always be one!)

Hmm what would mine include. Family, football, Beatles, Orwell, the countryside...so much goodness

Originally posted by .TUX.

No, it's quite simple.

Fair enough but for the points I've mentioned I'd obviously argue it is not. But I guess we can agree to disagree. Simple

Have a good day

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Invalid user 2019 24 Sep 19 7.17am
Originally posted by tome Where do you see that, then? Personally I wonder why many posters are wary of change or challenge. Society has always changed and evolved, the introduction of new ideas, technology and other people always encourages shifts in society. I tend to think it's a positive thing that reduces the prevalence of bad ideas and out of date notions. Also, we are all just people. What is it you are worried about in a scenario in which there are fewer 'white' people? As Matov argues, it's the values that matter - people are just people. Things aren't going to change much unless lots of people change their views and vote in laws which bring about that change. Seems to me that universally, change is happening faster and more people are moving about. The uncertainty this creates is often the problem, visibly different newcomers are merely the most visible aspect. But typically internal migration is much larger than international migration. There are generational distinctions, in that most youngsters now have friends of all races, all born here. They aren't looking over their pals for definitions of what constitutes who belongs most, because to them that would absurd. And indeed as I oft say, if you're born here and hold this country dear, no matter black or white, this is your country. You're not a guest. Aside from that, immigration policy should in my view be the decision of the people, not the EU, and not cheap labour loving governments. So on that front there could be some crossover in terms of what various groups might want. Outside of the EU I could see a serious push for a low cap based on skills required, but it certainly wouldn't exclude based on race - nor should it. It would be best to push for a limit on numbers, which would be a popular move, than something that's antithetical to the values of most people. Edited by dollardays (24 Sep 2019 7.40am)
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Invalid user 2019

24 Sep 19 7.17am

Originally posted by tome

Where do you see that, then?

Also, we are all just people. What is it you are worried about in a scenario in which there are fewer 'white' people? As Matov argues, it's the values that matter - people are just people. Things aren't going to change much unless lots of people change their views and vote in laws which bring about that change.

There are generational distinctions, in that most youngsters now have friends of all races, all born here. They aren't looking over their pals for definitions of what constitutes who belongs most, because to them that would absurd. And indeed as I oft say, if you're born here and hold this country dear, no matter black or white, this is your country. You're not a guest.

Aside from that, immigration policy should in my view be the decision of the people, not the EU, and not cheap labour loving governments. So on that front there could be some crossover in terms of what various groups might want. Outside of the EU I could see a serious push for a low cap based on skills required, but it certainly wouldn't exclude based on race - nor should it. It would be best to push for a limit on numbers, which would be a popular move, than something that's antithetical to the values of most people.

Edited by dollardays (24 Sep 2019 7.40am)

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Spiderman Horsham 24 Sep 19 8.00am
Originally posted by W12 By the way, I would answer my own question with “Kingsman” (the movie). I happen to know the producer and although he’s middle class he’s also ex forces so has respect for the working classes because he’s actually spent time with them. Completely off topic, my son got his first extras role in the new Kingsman film due out in February. First of many I hope, although proper acting roles would be preferable.Perhaps you could put in a word
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Spiderman

Horsham 24 Sep 19 8.00am

Originally posted by W12

By the way, I would answer my own question with “Kingsman” (the movie). I happen to know the producer and although he’s middle class he’s also ex forces so has respect for the working classes because he’s actually spent time with them.

Completely off topic, my son got his first extras role in the new Kingsman film due out in February. First of many I hope, although proper acting roles would be preferable.Perhaps you could put in a word

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Stirlingsays 25 Sep 19 11.18am
Originally posted by dollardays There are generational distinctions, in that most youngsters now have friends of all races, all born here. They aren't looking over their pals for definitions of what constitutes who belongs most, because to them that would absurd. And indeed as I oft say, if you're born here and hold this country dear, no matter black or white, this is your country. You're not a guest. The demographic map doesn't fit your idealist view regardless of generations. What you suggest isn't a happy reality anywhere in the world let alone here. As for your ideas on about 'this is your country'....this use to be my view ten years ago. There are posts on Hol where I'd state this. I'm no longer a normie who sees the world in idealistic terms. Where someone is born does not determine their allegiance.....that's an outdated viewpoint. What matters is allegiance. How you see things is how the state curently views it...inside or outside of the cities the demographic map is still divided but as that changes more will wake up and be practical rather than idealistic and braver in stating it. Brexit was a message that was in part a recognition that people know what's coming....and they don't want it. Originally posted by dollardays Aside from that, immigration policy should in my view be the decision of the people, not the EU, and not cheap labour loving governments. So on that front there could be some crossover in terms of what various groups might want. Outside of the EU I could see a serious push for a low cap based on skills required, but it certainly wouldn't exclude based on race - nor should it. It would be best to push for a limit on numbers, which would be a popular move, than something that's antithetical to the values of most people. Edited by dollardays (24 Sep 2019 7.40am) Once a nation is stripped of its historical and ancestral roots who really cares about numbers anymore? Only neo liberals. England is meant to be ruled by the English. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 12.43pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

25 Sep 19 11.18am

Originally posted by dollardays

The demographic map doesn't fit your idealist view regardless of generations. What you suggest isn't a happy reality anywhere in the world let alone here.

As for your ideas on about 'this is your country'....this use to be my view ten years ago. There are posts on Hol where I'd state this.

I'm no longer a normie who sees the world in idealistic terms. Where someone is born does not determine their allegiance.....that's an outdated viewpoint. What matters is allegiance.

How you see things is how the state curently views it...inside or outside of the cities the demographic map is still divided but as that changes more will wake up and be practical rather than idealistic and braver in stating it.

Brexit was a message that was in part a recognition that people know what's coming....and they don't want it.

Originally posted by dollardays

Edited by dollardays (24 Sep 2019 7.40am)

Once a nation is stripped of its historical and ancestral roots who really cares about numbers anymore? Only neo liberals.

England is meant to be ruled by the English.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Sep 2019 12.43pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Sep 19 1.49pm
Watched and enjoyed Romesh Ranganathan stand up the other night. Late on I questioned why he has integrated so much that he’s exactly the same as white people he grew up with apart from skin tone and his parents’ accents (and this isn’t new to me as he would’ve been a mate of mine, before I get pelters), and how so many people of colour want to be so different, sound so different, stay detached from white Britain or be completely isolated from it. I have and have had Asian friends agree. The first thing is he’s a Christian Sri Lankan. From experience Hindus also integrate and adapt. But now it seems unless you go to a white school the majority will share very little in common with white people around them or want to. This is my gripe, and it seems is for everyone else, explaining a lot of White flight. I expect pelters, especially from one, but that’s how I feel. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Sep 19 1.49pm

Watched and enjoyed Romesh Ranganathan stand up the other night. Late on I questioned why he has integrated so much that he’s exactly the same as white people he grew up with apart from skin tone and his parents’ accents (and this isn’t new to me as he would’ve been a mate of mine, before I get pelters), and how so many people of colour want to be so different, sound so different, stay detached from white Britain or be completely isolated from it. I have and have had Asian friends agree.

The first thing is he’s a Christian Sri Lankan. From experience Hindus also integrate and adapt. But now it seems unless you go to a white school the majority will share very little in common with white people around them or want to. This is my gripe, and it seems is for everyone else, explaining a lot of White flight. I expect pelters, especially from one, but that’s how I feel.

COYP

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